Hacker News Reader

Comment by throw101010 | Hacker News Reader

There are multiples alternatives to Ledger, they are the laughing stock of hardware crypto wallets since they've started their online seed backup solution... at least among power users.

Coldcard if you aren't into shitcoins, and Keepkey if you partake in them would be my choices. I would have recommended Trezor at some point but their customer data leak tainted their image for me, they've made a lot of their customers targets just because they chose to use a third party to handle customer data for marketing purpose, if you run a business this sensitive, do this in-house and apply banking standards for this data handling, seems like a no-brainer.

View on HN

>they are the laughing stock of hardware crypto wallets

Well that's not even close to true. Only the hardcore Bitcoin maximalists were pushing that lie because ledger was supporting Bitcoin cash. What a weird pathetic lie to keep telling all these years later.

This isn't true at all. Ledger has not been a laughingstock of the cryptocurrency community. Their hardware wallet has survived multiple attacks that Trezor has not. It has the strongest security model and easiest to use interface of any cryptocurrency wallet intended for regular use.

You are correct of course! Ledger has long been a pillar of the community but villainized by the Bitcoin core maximalists when ledger started supporting Bitcoin Cash (BCH), the original bitcoin.

Like so much in this space people think with their wallet and will villainize anyone who doesn't help sell their bags.

I stopped using Trezor when they started labeling Bitcoin Cash as Bcash.

I can only second that. I don't have a need for their crypto products personally, but everything I've seen from them (both their open source software and their security research) seems to be a level above the competition.

This sounds a lot like a sales pitch by Ledger, is the next service you are going to sell me involving me sending my seed, online, to Ledger so it can be sent to 3 third parties... because that is what made so many people laugh at them last year. They can add as many layers of cryptographic schemes on this, it so antithetical to what you should do with a seed you want to secure that it ruined their reputation for a lot of people. If you have missed this episode or prefer to forget about it, it doesn't make it less real.

I'll add that even if that didn't make them a joke to you, I am just as concerned by their customer data leak (similar to what I've mentioned above for Trezor) and that alone makes me not want to recommend them, I just didn't mention it as the other point is egregious enough on its own.

Do you HAVE TO send your seed for backup? Do they use dark patterns to force you to upload your seed?

Do you realize some people value (probably wrongly in this case) convenience over absolute security?

There’s nothing wrong with offering additional options.

>value (probably wrongly in this case) convenience over absolute security?

I'm guessing there has been far more crypto lost through people forgetting/losing their keys than by having been hacked. Though personally I prefer to lose it speculating on the futures markets. People are idiots a lot of the time.

It's simple, the surface of attack of their system is much larger with the mere existence of this backup scheme, even if none of their customer used it...for the convenience of a fringe of their customers (the real reason is to widen their userbase to less security conscious customers and make more money this way). They also have proven to be poor deciders in the past when it comes to protecting their customers' data. The two combined make me want to never purchase a device again from them, and made me demand that they delete all my PII from a former purchase.

If these red flags are not red enough for you, go on, use them, I refuse to recommend them anymore for the stated reasons, especially when there are alternatives with better security/track records.

I'm not familiar with the seed uploading incident. I'm just evaluating the device on how easy it is to compromise vs Trezor and competitors.

> do this in-house and apply banking standards for this data handling, seems like a no-brainer.

The no-brainer is thinking that cryptobros are going to do the opposite of whatever banking standards are. Following existing standards in not what disrupters do. It's not what someone flaunting all of the traditional rules of "fiat currency" do. Expecting a scorpion to not sting you is on you.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com