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Comment by terrabiped | Hacker News Reader

In the Bay Area we had the statues of Ulysses Grant [1], Francis Key [2], and Junipero Serra [3] removed. This isn't even the full list of all the monuments that were labeled "racist" or "oppressive". All was done a couple of years ago.

Are these the traitors you're talking about?

Even if people couldn't dig up anything against the person, the monument could simply be linked to the "wrong part of our history" and be removed, like the Thomas Fallon's statue in San Jose [4]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bust_of_Ulysses_S._Grant_(San_...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Francis_Scott_Key_(S...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Junípero_Serra_(San_...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Fallon#Legacy

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> Ulysses Grant

> On June 19, 2020, the monument was toppled by protestors and defaced with the words "Adios America" in red paint as a response to Grant's brief ownership of a slave.

> Francis Key

> The statue was toppled by vandals on June 19, 2020, in the wake of the murder of George Floyd.

> Juniperro Serra

> Other statues of Junípero Serra were involved as the protests expanded to include monuments of individuals associated with the controversy over the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas.

> Thomas Fallon

> Fallon remains a controversial figure in San Jose's history, owing to his role in the American Conquest of California.

Besides Francis Key, which appears to have been vandalized rather than something that people specifically wanted removed, the rest of them do actually have reasons they were taken down? You can disagree with those but they do exist.

My response was a counterexample to the the parent comment which implied that the only statues being removed are the statues of the traitors. None of the people I listed were traitors.

For the people I listed, I'd encourage you to read more about them and form your own opinion instead of just quoting back from the links I shared earlier.

There is very little reason to believe that Serra treated the indigenous people differently from the rest of his mission or that he didn't believe in what he was preaching. Similarly, almost nothing is known about why Grant had William Jones for a year, but Grant's character had been proven through years of real action - fighting the war and, later, fighting the KKK.

People just clung to some speculative theories, interpreted them in the least charitable way, and get offended by it. While everyone else sees that the topic was labeled as "racist" or "controversial" and tries to distance themselves from it.

I don't think you want to hear my opinions of those people, though I will agree that they are probably not traitors.

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