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Comment by MaxPock | Hacker News Reader

Don't millions starve too in capitalism?

No. No liberal capitalist economy has ever had a famine. By contrast, most communist economies have created major famines, and history's largest famines have all been created by communist economies, outdoing even colonialism in their death tolls.

These are well-known historical facts.

To save some time, can you define the True Scotsman here? Would the US in the 1920s count as a liberal capitalistic country for example? England in the 1860s?

Yes, and yes, which is one reason that, as it turns out, neither the US in the 01920s nor England in the 01860s experienced the famines that affected some other parts of the world at the same time. (In the 01920s Russia was experiencing its first famine that could reasonably be attributed to communism, and in the 01860s Sweden and Finland were experiencing their last famines before their transitions to capitalism.) But not, for example, Ireland in the 01840s and 01850s; that was neither, being colonialist and agricultural.

Nobody starved to death in "famines" like the so-called Lancashire Cotton Famine. By contrast, in the Finnish famine starting the next year, almost 10% of the population of Finland died. As it turns out, that was the last famine in Finland because it became capitalist over the following decades.

> But not, for example, Ireland in the 01840s and 01850s; that was neither, being colonialist and agricultural.

England was a capitalistic economy in the 1850s, no?

Yes, and England was at that time and for almost another century causing famines in its colonies abroad by preventing them from becoming either capitalist or liberal. Ireland didn't even get the worst of it; India suffered much worse under the English yoke.

Agreed. So it sounds like capitalistic economies can cause famines?

Certainly, if we're talking about their effects on people who aren't privileged to participate in the capitalist economy itself. Being colonized is much the same experience regardless of what economic system your colonists' families live under overseas. And I'd expect illiberal capitalist economies to cause famines, too; liberalism is more important than capitalism for preventing famines.

> In the 1920s Russia was experiencing its first famine that could reasonably be attributed to communism

There were no famines in the USSR from 1947–1991, but there was a variety of considerations such as monarchy, civil war, 2 world wars, and anti-communist sanctions from the 1890-1947 period, so if anything, it appears that the evidence would imply communism ended the famines, not caused them.

Certainly communism did eventually stop causing famines in the Soviet Union, but the Holodomor personally overseen by Stalin was worse than any Tsarist famine. And we have many other examples of communism causing famine: Mao's Great Leap Forward caused history's worst famine, for example (history's only famine worse than Stalin's Holodomor), but also, for example, the Ethiopian famine many of us remember from the 80s was caused by the Derg (who were technically socialist rather than communist), and one aspect of Pol Pot's democide in Cambodia was a famine, as well.

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM has more details, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:20th-century_famines lists some other examples, along with the odd non-communist famine. But none in liberal capitalist economies.

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