Comment by huggyface | Hacker News Reader

Comment by huggyface | Hacker News Reader

All internal computer now run as virtual machines (not desktops) running on two mondo-powerful Linux servers. The virtualization platform is Citrix. Nobody has a functional box under their desk any more....The company has got rid of the desktop computers entirely (sorry Dell and HP)

What? How are they accessing these virtual machines? Mind meld? In most cases where companies use VDIs the desktop machines are the standard old Dells and HPs because they actually cost less than "dumb terminals" (aka thin-clients). And that's accepting the questionable notion that VDIs are the future.

Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead

We have been on a hiring binge lately and it is very difficult to find candidates who know anything but Microsoft tools. Sure they might know github, but there is a very substantial part of the workforce that stills crawls into Microsoft's bosom.

In general this blog post is completely detached from reality. There is the "startup" culture, of course, where everyone runs an iMac and develops iOS and Ruby/MongoDB apps for their EC2 cluster, and then there's the many magnitudes bigger general computing world that holds zero similarities.

How are they accessing these virtual machines?

Probably with Citrix-compatible thin clients. There are a ton of those out there.

...it is very difficult to find candidates who know anything but Microsoft tools.

That may be true in the US and some parts of Western Europe, such as the UK, but what about the rest of the world? The author of the blog post, John Hempton, is a hedge fund manager who works out of Australia but invests worldwide, and he often thinks and writes in terms of global trends. What is your experience trying to hire candidates outside the US?

Probably with Citrix-compatible thin clients. There are a ton of those out there.

Why would you post this reply when I specifically address that in the next two sentences?

That may be true in the US and some parts of Western Europe, such as the UK, but what about the rest of the world?

India is overwhelmingly Microsoft-centric. Eastern Europe is overwhelmingly Microsoft-centric. Much of Russia is very Microsoft-centric.

But nonetheless your oddly defensive argument (know the author?) sounds suspiciously like the "oh yeah, they're big in Germany" retort. But anyways what I am replying to is what I see as a immediately ridiculous claim that people under 30 don't know Microsoft, when the overwhelming proof says otherwise.

The author of the blog post, John Hempton, is a hedge fund manager who works out of Australia but invests worldwide, and he often thinks and writes in terms of global trends

This is one of the stranger appeals to authority that I've yet read. When I think "technology trends expert" I don't think "hedge fund manager". That someone invests money gives them zero authority on technology trends. I should add to notice that my business is hedge fund technology, so the circle is kind of complete here.

I'm from Australia, and (based on the job ads I see - I just did a quick search on job site seek.com.au - "ruby" returned nearly 300 results, "asp.net" returned > 700, and having worked here for 10 years) Microsoft is the dominant development paradigm, so I don't think the condescending notion of the parent "this is a GLOBAL thing you yanks wouldn't understand" works either.

Where else is there? Development in India is more ingrained in Microsoft than anywhere else on earth. Looking for blog posts on silverlight will lead to a poorly written guide by a developer in India. ALL LARGE IT CONSULTING FIRMS have major operations in India, and the majority of them use ASP.NET or WPF. Many are now moving over to open technologies like rails, but only in small US specific shops targeting US customers. I haven't heard or interacted with many Chinese developers who aren't in the US. You mentioned western Europe specifically--from working with some Microsoft platform lately, it seems like most silverlight 'vendors' in Europe of are in eastern Europe (most notably, i think, Telerik).

Australia may be the exception to the rule, though I doubt that a quarter of Australian CS majors go on to work somewhere using python, rails, or PHP. A good number probably go to java, a compiled language, or iOS dev, but if they're going into web, i'd be hard pressed to believe that a majority aren't going into an ASP.NET operation.

Claiming that most developers under 30 don't use microsoft platforms is just pish-posh. They just don't learn it in class, and don't do it in their free time. That doesn't mean their first job isn't going to be a DB analyst on some 10 year old VB.net application.

> Development in India is more ingrained in Microsoft than anywhere else on earth.

Software development in India follows whatever happens to be mainstream. People need jobs, most of the jobs are in software services, the projects service providers get are mostly Java/.net, colleges and people tend to stick with Java/.net to be on the safer side.

> ALL LARGE IT CONSULTING FIRMS have major operations in India, and the majority of them use ASP.NET or WPF.

Most of the consulting firms in India don't get a choice, even for the greenfield projects. Goldman Sachs comes in saying this is what you need to do and use Java, the consultancy plays along.

That said, from what I have seen, Java overshadows .net by a big margin.

I agree with all of that; I should have been more clear in referencing the web stuff. Perhaps I'm being unintentionally disingenuous about Java's role in all of this.

  We have been on a hiring binge lately and it is very difficult to find candidates who know anything but Microsoft tools.

Geography.

A buddy in Louisiana who was looking for a job tells me there's nothing but Microsoft stack.

Where I live, it depends which side of the lake you live on.

I get the same impression about Florida (I've friends there). Lots of Microsoft. Even the Java apps run on Windows servers. I'd love to see more Python there.

... it is very difficult to find candidates who know anything but Microsoft tools.

This may depend on a variety of things, such as the job location and desired skill level, but this blanket statement is false. For example, it seems that a significant number of Hacker News participants - who are developers - develop in other languages and platforms.

... completely detached from reality.

My personal opinion is that developers who don't learn other languages, platforms, and tools are completely detached from reality. There will always be (perhaps seemingly a majority of) people where being a developer is just a "job" and learning new things isn't necessary. But, again my personal opinion, this ultimately harms yourself.

Finding good people is hard. Many others have written about this, but don't be discouraged that there's only Microsoft developers out there.

This may depend on a variety of things, such as the job location and desired skill level, but this blanket statement is false.

The blanket statement was a personal observation about our own hiring, so I can assure you with complete conviction that it is not false. Further I addressed the alternate universe of the start-up world, comprising a tiny, tiny percentage of software developers, and that is what HN caters to.

Just to be clear, I don't like that most candidates outside of the startup-sphere are so Microsoft or Java centric. In fact it is a battle that we constantly have to fight (hire somebody and then have to argue every single decision that isn't the Microsoft Way). Yet I have enough real world development experience that I found that claim so ridiculously detached from reality that the author lost any and all credibility on tech matters.

Out of curiosity, what are the positions you have open? and where is your company located?

And what technology stack you use.

There will always be (perhaps seemingly a majority of) people where being a developer is just a "job" and learning new things isn't necessary.

Absolutely. And I don't begrudge those people- I initially learnt .NET myself and then broadened my horizons, but many of my previous co-workers have families, time consuming hobbies or other such interests. There's not inherently wrong with having "just a job", if you're content with other things in your life. It seems like a specifically (oddly) US-centric view that there should be anything wrong with that.

There's not inherently wrong with having "just a job" ...

I agree.

In the context of this conversation, finding good people is hard. There was an article in The Atlantic that discusses this basic idea and more:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/the-big-...

Here's a quote from the article that makes a good point:

... When firms were asked why they have difficulty hiring, 55% picked "lack of available applicants," but essentially the same percentage, 54%, said candidates are "looking for more pay than is offered" (many more than the 40% selecting lack of "hard" skill). This is an important reminder that the labor market is a market.

The labor market is a market.

The readers of Hacker News are NOT a representation of the mainstream, bulk programming workforce.

So you would be long Microsoft? If no then one wonders if you really effectively disagree with Hempton.

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