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Comment by Philpax | Hacker News Reader

> I couldn't care less what the authors personal beliefs and political leanings are, or who they offended on IRC or social media.

I just don't really want to use or support software by people who, at best, think it's appropriate to joke about an ideology that wants me [0] dead, or at worst, actively subscribe to that ideology. There are some things that I'm not willing to look past.

[0]: non-white, non-straight, left of the political spectrum

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Having been on their mailing lists and IRC channel for over four years, I have seen maybe a handful of "edgy" comments that made me go "sigh" or "Ew!" and they are generally from two or so people that are on the fringe of the community. Yes, it is possible that this is some sort of elaborate trick, but they sure give the appearance of mostly a bunch of helpful folks that care deeply about their own code and projects while caring very little to police people and rather just ignore them.

Oh, there are also the edgelords occasionally lured in by Luke Smith's videos (who has never sat foot in community or contributed code while I have been around and I am not sure if he ever did) who usually get laughed out of IRC after delivering an unhinged chanspeak rant.

> ... and they are generally from two or so people that are on the fringe of the community.

How do the people at the center of the community react to this, though? If they are not condemning that sort of behavior, and possibly kicking people like that out of the community, then they are complicit at best, and tacitly approve at worst.

Fair question. I never really seen it on the mailing lists, as those are low volume and technical.

Looking at my IRC logs over the last six months I see one joke-ish comment from a fringe person that VT100 clearly must be racist as it does not support Unicode skin colour emoji merging and one core-ish member chuckling (I will not quote as I find doing so without consent to be morally questionable). This took place in a mostly technical discussion about the complexity of "improving" Unicode handling in st(1). That is it.

I have never really seen something so bad that I would argue for a ban (but that is of course a subjective judgement) and there is a line of thought that ignoring is better than trying to build a wall of rules and "feeding" the trolls by going after them. Whether this is true I am not sure, but I happily take part in both stricter and more lenient communities myself and can see advantages and disadvantages of both.

Probably more in a “don’t feed the trolls” way than you might otherwise prefer.

Nope. They are adults. If you have a problem, talk to the guy, if that doesn't work, block or leave.

I'm so sick and tired of the woke victimism ideology, but fortunately it is crashing and burning and we'll be right back to meritocracy and focus on technology. No code of conduct is the best code of conduct! =)

Yeah I'm real tired of that ideology as well. Political correctness needs to die; sooner rather than later.

I get that, they're probably assholes. But if I limited my usage of software and consumption of art to only those not authored by assholes, I would probably have a less enjoyable and boring existence. Not to mention exhausting.

I think it's possible to separate the art from the artist, and enjoy the art without being concerned about the artist's beliefs, and whether I disagree with them.

Also, you don't necessarily support them by using their software. The software is free to use by anyone, and you never have to interact with the authors in any way. Software is an amorphous entity. Unless they're using it to spread their personal beliefs, it shouldn't matter what that is. By choosing not to use free software, you're only depriving yourself.

But this is your own choice, of course, and I'm not saying it's wrong. Just offering a different perspective.

> I get that, they're probably assholes.

I think you're setting up a too-general argument here. "Asshole" an encompass a huge variety of things, from "actively genocidal" to just "kinda annoying", and everything in between.

I'm pretty "mainstream" demographically (white, straight, cisgender), but if the developer of software I use said something like "all atheists should be shot", I would immediately stop using their software and find something else.

> By choosing not to use free software, you're only depriving yourself.

Sometimes making a statement means enduring some sort of disadvantage or hardship in return. In fact I think that's part of the point. If it doesn't cost me anything to stop supporting something I find offensive, then my (admittedly mild) protest doesn't really have much substance behind it.

In this particular case, there's nothing that the suckless folks have built that doesn't have alternatives that are also free software, so I don't think anyone who refuses to use suckless software is depriving themselves of free software.

That would indeed be concerning if true; do you have a reference? Unfortunately, the vast majority of such claims I've found to be misconstrued which makes me skeptical (the boy keeps crying wolf).

Then, when people are no longer allowed to talk about what (stupid shit) they believe and jokes should only be made behinds peoples back.

Who should be on the committee that decides what we may talk and joke about and how should the committee inform it self?

The new forbidden topics will be chosen from the set of topics people talk about which get smaller, stranger and more political. What people secretly believe will be much closer to the secret dialog while the public dialog floats away.

That people are saying things is the least of your concern.

Fascinating perspective tho. It is much easier if one is more secure, talks easy or has a more mundane world view. Not someone one can choose. Thicker skin however.

Also interesting, if one didn't like the people running the lunchroom at the end of the street or didn't like the visitors you use to be able to go to some other place. Today they are all part of the same chain. We've lost a lot of freedom there.

It's honestly distressing how all of these violent ideologies are growing in popularity. Nazism, socialism, and whatever else should be thrown on the pile. If you're a queer black "executive" like myself, there are a lot of people that believe the world would be a better place with you dead.

It's getting to the point that I'm considering keeping myself ignorant of developers' beliefs for my own mental wellness.

Huh, socialism as a violent ideology was not on my bingo card for 2025

That's because in modern (at least US) parlance, "socialism" can mean anything from "mild redistribution of resources with taxation and spending" to "Stalinist purges". Clearly the violence is on one side of that spectrum (unless you believe taxation is theft and inherently violent, which... I've heard is a belief). It's almost a meaningless word these days.

Absence of obsession with identity politics is not the same as wanting you dead. I don't want my tax dollars funding your personal lifestyle choices, just as you wouldn't want yours funding mine.

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