Comment by Aveng1991 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Aveng1991 | Hacker News Reader

The founders merely translated existing practices into a piece of software. While the demo was a little off, the pain point is pretty valid. As a manufacturer,I have seen factories loose contracts over 20 cents, while the same goods is retailed 4X-5X margin at $85. At the end of the day factories rarely make margins on COG (Cost of Goods), but survive on the residues of efficiency. Even though volume is the game, brutal efficiency is the rule. I personally feel it’s a misplaced backlash on the founders or the factories, while the main enablers are the Big retailers. Factories are at the mercy of big retailers, their relationship dynamic akin to mob boss-henchman, where the factories simply follow the orders.

Most factories practice two modes of compensation: 1. Per pc rate - Payment is directly tied to the output, more efficient. Requires skilled workers and can sometimes be a little costlier and impractical. Defects are deducted from the workers pay.

2. Monthly salary - This setup can accommodate semi skilled workers since each worker only handles one part of the whole. It’s a relatively cheaper process. However inefficiencies can easily creep in, defects can pile up which can wipe off the whole margin and ruin the factory.

I don’t believe in running a sweatshop, but even well run humane factories have to battle inefficiencies all the time. The line between marginal point inefficiencies can mean canceled contracts, cancelled goods and financial losses. At the end of the day it’s the workers who have to take the brunt. The upside of efficiency is timely wages; the downside is already obvious. The upside of inefficiency is a little break for workers; the downside is job loss and unpaid wages.

Hence I am not a fan of mass production esp under contract from Big retailers.

> where the factories simply follow the orders

I seem to remember some person using this argument. I think it's called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

That's kind of outrageous, like the common trope of comparing workers to "slaves." Lot of privilege on display here.

There are still a few Holocaust survivors left. Go ask some of them how their experience compares to that of factory workers who can, ultimately, walk out the door anytime they want.

You do get that The Nuremberg Defense has meaning outside the holocaust right? It's the name for when someone does something unethical/immoral with the justification that they were just following orders or just responding to the incentives they were given.

There are a number of solutions to this problem that exist various places, militaries typically empower officers to disobey orders, professionals use licensure to uphold moral and ethical standards, whistleblower laws provide financial incentives the other way, unions can flex on immoral behavior.

I don't believe anyone is arguing the two situations are comparable outside of the fact the defense of the behavior follows the same line of reasoning, a line that was very famously rejected.

well many workers can’t walk out the door anytime they want.

https://www.ilo.org/topics-and-sectors/forced-labour-modern-...

you may want to ask some of them about their experiences before displaying your privilege

What do they have to do with the subject of the article?

my bobe had to run away from Poland circa 1933 to Argentina and I come from a smack in the middle class family. I know my family history, thanks. I see the meaning of what I quoted flew past over your head.

The meaning was clear enough, but the relevance escapes me.

In the context of the current topic, follow the orders means meeting deadlines and maintaining cost. Big retail weld massive power over manufacturers, consumers over big retail, the desire for faster and cheaper goods over consumers. It’s a loop where the blame shifts as per the convenience. As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers.

At the end of the day, it’s all about efficiency.But running efficiently shouldn’t come at the cost of low paid workers.

> As a manufacturer, I have also seen some factories passing on the opportunity to contract for some really big retailers, since taking on their orders meant squeezing their workers.

you understood EXACTLY what I meant when quoting this. You can always say no. always.

You can say no unless someone holds a gun at your head. Hence my objection to your comparison of the poor downtrodden factory workers to victims of a violent totalitarian regime.

> As a manufacturer [...]

> It’s a misplaced backlash on the founders or the factories, while the main enablers are the Big retailers. Factories are at the mercy of big retailers.

Everyone always think the fault lies somewhere else. Go ask big retailers and they will say they are the mercy of competition and consumers' demands.

Ultimately, everyone is trying to extract the maximum profit they can, and that includes factories.

Yes that’s totally true. I have seen huge orders being cancelled at last min due to few days delay. Factories loose contracts over minor issues. The whole mass production phenomenon is very unhealthy esp in fashion where trends changes every week; the pressure to churn the production on time is even greater than other industries.

Not every factories are sweatshops; even good humane factories are under tremendous pressure to run efficiently. Running a business efficiently isn’t a crime. However I do agree that the demo could have been a little more better.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com