Meta allows users to call LGBTQ+ people mentally ill | Hacker News Reader

Meta allows users to call LGBTQ+ people mentally ill

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10 pointsJotalea14 comments

>Mental characteristics, including but not limited to allegations of stupidity, intellectual capacity, and mental illness, and unsupported comparisons between PC groups on the basis of inherent intellectual capacity. We do allow allegations of mental illness or abnormality when based on gender or sexual orientation, given political and religious discourse about transgenderism and homosexuality and common non-serious usage of words like “weird.”

I feel like that second sentence maybe was written wrong? Maybe they meant "do not allow"?

I'm also having trouble even following what it means, or why "weird" is a part of that example. "Weird" isn't a part of the rest of that sentence at all...

I believe it is correct when they say they do allow when the allegations of mental illness are based in the context of religious or political discourse around transgenderism. I believe if you just made a blanket statement absent any context it would be disallowed.

Also The inclusion of the non-serious example word weird, is simply a way of demonstrating that saying you believe transgenders are weird isn't offensive speech against their community guidelines. That seems very sensible to me because many people are weird for many attributes often times we attribute weird to anyone not like us.

That's not what that says. "Given" means that because "political and religious discourse about transgenderism [sic] and homosexuality" exists it's okay to dehumanize trans people.

This is alarming because the US Government is currently implementing Project 2025, part of which culminates in declaring trans people pedophiles and sex predators and executing them. This week we've seen discussions between trans people about medical procedures slanderously portrayed as "sex chats" and "fetishes." The extreme level of dehumanization and villainization during a period of political purges and propaganda is an ominous sign of imminent moral collapse.

Nothing in the Facebook statement mentions the word dehumanize. You're simply inventing and adding a term in where none exists. It's talking about the view that transgenderism comes from a mental health disorder. Nothing in a belief, absent further context, that transgenderism is a mental health disorder is dehumanizing. Trying to link the two is so disingenuous that it's hard to take you seriously. Do you think when someone says anorexia or bulimia is a mental health disorder they have somehow dehumanized the person? Because in order to be logically consistent you would have to think labeling anything as a mental health disorder is dehumanizing.

"in the context of religious or political discourse around transgenderism."

I'm not sure what that exactly the ramifications of that is. Maybe the meaning changes dramatically with that?

Religion and politics are highly cultural things. Mental health and what is deemed as correct mental health versus abnormal mental health are cultural understandings and not universal norms. I know people like to think they are absolute universal norms but they are not. A culture defines what is considered normal and what is considered abnormal and oftentimes they can associate the abnormal condition to being due to mental health. Western societies which are considered very progressive on this front change their view all the time as their cultural norms change.

So it does change the meaning a lot. Instead of simply screaming at someone that they are mentally defective because they're transgender. Now it becomes a cultural discussion which is underpinned by politics and religion of what is considered normal behavior in your society. The normalcy of societies has had both good and bad repercussions and will continue to do so for some time because none of us are all altruistic all the time.

I'm not sure that all is what that sentence says or even intends.

> We do allow allegations of mental illness or abnormality when based on gender or sexual orientation [...]

Your cherry picking and eliminating important context. I think that's part of the problem here. Or maybe you just stopped reading after it hit the comma which then provided the context in which that criticism is allowed. Whatever the reason for you eliminating the context and failing to comprehend the context is actually part of the problem.

How is that context important? Including it doesn't clarify or make the stance any better or more understandable.

Because politics and religion defines someone's cultural understanding of what is considered mentally healthy and what is not mentally healthy. I thought this was a universal understanding of what mental health is but I guess not. This is why you see different societies Make determinations on what behavior is considered normal versus abnormal and can put that into a mental health context. Facebook is simply recognizing this universal truth that societies are different and it is okay to have that debate and discussion.

Mental health is not determined by politics or religion. It's a medical assertion.

If they were taking the position that it's OK to say to say something like "this behavior is immoral", that would be entirely different. But what they're actually saying is that it's OK to engage in medical diagnosis because your personal belief system leads to you find the existence of certain other sorts of people objectionable.

> Facebook is simply recognizing this universal truth that societies are different and it is okay to have that debate and discussion.

I disagree. I don't think that's what Facebook is doing at all.

That's a surprising stance of moral absolutism which I doubt you carry into the rest of the aspects of your life. If you look at medical assertions and how they have changed over the years they are absolutely in line with the cultural assertions that come from a religious and political viewpoints. This is also why they vary broadly around the world based upon the cultures. You merely need to study different cultures around the world and view what they believe and see what they consider normal and deviant behavior as it relates to what is mentally normal and mentally deviant from a health perspective.

Let me provide you with an extreme example because you're not seeming to understand that there can be small variances everywhere so this extreme example should demonstrate exactly the point that culture deems what is mentally healthy behavior or not.

https://medium.com/the-story-in-history/the-tribe-where-boys...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simbari_people

In most other societies especially any western society this not only would be considered criminal behavior but it would also be considered mentally deviant behavior. It would indicate a problem with mental health to engage in this behavior and promote it.

So it is quite clear to anyone that a culture through its religion and political power makes a determination on behaviors and the outcome of that determination is around mental health.

So the assertion that some people may have that transgenderism is a mental health disorder and their religious and political viewpoints are the reason they have around it isn't really that far-fetched considering what goes on in the world. I think if you simply look at the Facebook posts that do not get people banned that are asserting that in a political and or religious context transgenderism is a mental health disorder it's plain to see that is absolutely what Facebook is doing. They are carving out this exception allowing political and religious discourse around this. Because your cultural understanding is not the world's cultural understanding.

That just passes the buck to the medical community, who have to figure out whether something is a disorder or not, which again becomes a decision informed by societal norms and practicality.

An interesting, nuanced essay on this (from a slightly earlier era):

> At this point, I don’t care enough to say much more than “If it’s a psychiatric disorder, then attempts to help transgender people get covered by health insurance, and most of the transgender people I know seem to want that, so sure, gender dysphoria is a psychiatric disorder.”

- The Categories were made for Man, not Man for the Categories

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/21/the-categories-were-ma...

(I have no idea what Facebook's motivation is in this matter).

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