Adjust for living expenses and the situation already looks very different. Then adjust for quality of life...
This gets amplified if you're a highly sought after professional. Top senior engineers are getting paid $500k-$1M in the US. These are figures you'll never find in Europe or Asia, not even close. Put on top the rising costs of living, and 45% top tax brackets (France, UK, Germany, Spain), the US is incomparable.
> This gets amplified if you're a highly sought after professional. Top senior engineers are getting paid $500k-$1M in the US. These are figures you'll never find in Europe or Asia, not even close.
But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area? What if you ever want to do something else? What if demands for your profession change? How expensive is it to raise children?
I have first hand experience of both the US and Europe, and while nominal salaries are (much) lower in the latter, subjective feelings of safety and quality of life seem much more comparable than the numbers might make you believe.
That said, the US system of highly rewarding relatively few people at the top certainly motivates the masses like few others: Most people are bad at statistics and like playing the lottery.
This discussion is about whether or not the US is a top brain drain destination. That means we're talking about exceptionally skilled or promising scientists/engineers/doctors at the top of their field. I'm not claiming life is great for everyone in America. I agree it isn't.
> But what does that buy you really, in a high cost of living area?
Look at the PPP in CA. It buys you a lot. People in HCOL cities that manage their finances well can become multi-millionaires in their early 30s. They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives. Meanwhile, people in Europe have on average lower assets and savings, low levels of home ownership, and lower likelihood to retire early at a comparable standard of living. Not to mention the pension crisis many of them are or will be facing in the near future.
And my point is that this is increasingly the case due to a combination of inertia and people’s bad EV calculations:
> They will already be able to retire in 99% of the world, with enough savings to lead incredibly comfortable and luxurious lives.
Just demographically, this will never be viable for a large fraction of the population, regardless of any economic concerns.
This leaves truly exceptional talents, and those that incorrectly assume that that’s them.
And this isn’t even considering how AI is potentially going to shake up knowledge work.
There is a very big reason why there’s no more large swaths of immigrants from European and some Asian countries flocking into the US. Yes there is some, but the times when it was objectively much better to live and grow in the states is in the past. Money is really not the only thing people care about, but it’s hard to understand for people for whom money is the only thing they care about.
> The majority of American households in the poorest US states are doing better than the majority of Europeans.
The average life in these countries is undeniably better, even if poorer on paper.
Also how can a person that hasn't experienced the economic freedom the US provides to top talent accurately judge if their country of choice is better? I would like to see the statistics on SWEs that got wealthy in America, that regret moving to the states and would prefer to revert all those years.
(I've lived in Europe for most of my life by the way. Lots of good places to retire, but mostly poor choices for spending my productive years there.)
You guys think everyone wants the same as you do, but it really isn’t like that.
I've already addressed this in another thread. We're talking about brain drain. That means we are talking about highly skilled professionals for in-demand fields that can easily get this level of pay.
A skilled senior SWE can very realistically demand $300k+ comp in US tech companies. In the startup space $150k + equity has become table stakes, and their hiring bar is often significantly lower. These are not anomalies, tech companies employ hundreds of thousands of engineers.
> You guys think everyone wants the same as you do, but it really isn’t like that.
Ok, so tell me, what are things people want? Because people in the aforementioned circles can retire in their 30s, and spend the rest of their lives traveling the world, taking care of their family, and pursing their passions without worries. Is that somehow controversial?
If you're single and flexible to move away if any part of that calculation changes it's definitely a great deal, but the more attachments you have in life, the worse the deal becomes arguably.
> Because people in the aforementioned circles can retire in their 30s, and spend the rest of their lives traveling the world, taking care of their family, and pursing their passions without worries. Is that somehow controversial?
I think you have an unrealistically rosy view of the average outcome here. I work in this field, and people "retiring in their 30s and traveling the world while providing for their family and pursuing their passions" is still an extreme outlier.
> Ok, so tell me, what are things people want?
Maybe I'm an outlier here too, but personally, I value long-term societal stability and safety quite highly, as I don't have many illusions about being able to buy my way out of certain kinds of problems caused by a large and increasing rift between people of various income levels.
Yeas, and this reason - US visa is one of the hardest to get.
You've no idea of the blatant ongoing racism in Europe that's so normalised it's basically a non issue. Like Zwarte Piet in Netherlands.
The xenophobia in EU is head and shoulders above the US. I've lived in both places for years. In Germany for example you will never be considered German even if you were born in the country.