Hacker News Reader

Comment by tom_ | Hacker News Reader

Nothing significant on the face of it and I think that's pretty much exactly what's being suggested: don't have anything particularly interesting in the .yml file, just the bare minimum plus some small number of uncomplicated script invocations to install dependencies and actually do the build.

(Iterating even on this stuff by waiting for the runner is still annoying though. You need to commit to the repo, push, and wait. Hence the suggestion of having scripts that you can also run locally, so you can test changes locally when you're iterating on them. This isn't any kind of guarantee, but it's far less annoying to do (say) 15 iterations locally followed by the inevitable extra 3 remotely than it is having to do all 18 remotely, waiting for the runner each time then debugging it by staring at the output logs. Even assuming you'd be able to get away with as few as 15 given that you don't have proper access to the machine.)

View on HN

But GitHub recommends that, so if people don't follow best practices, and then complain when the docs are clear, who's at fault? The person writing against a system they don't understand because they haven't read the docs or the people who recommend what you're professing in the docs?

> But GitHub recommends that

Where?

Here:

https://docs.github.com/en/actions/writing-workflows/choosin...

Nothing in that document states anything remotely like the antecedent of "that", which was:

> don't have anything particularly interesting in the .yml file, just the bare minimum plus some small number of uncomplicated script invocations to install dependencies and actually do the build

It is a very basic "how to" with no recommendations.

Moreover, they directly illustrate a bad practice:

      - name: Run the scripts
        run: |
          ./my-script.sh
          ./my-other-script.sh

This is not running two scripts, this is running a shell command that invokes two scripts, and has no error handling if the first one fails. If that's the behavior you want, fine, but then put it in one shell script, not two. What am I supposed to do with this locally? If the first shell script fails, do I need to fix it, or do I just proceed on to the second one?

It does even if you don't like it. You can put your logic in a script and execute that. That is what is being conveyed here in a blistering simple fashion. You could also make it one script, or two or three, you could even break those out into steps.

This is invoking a shell and that's how shells typically work, one command at a time. Would it make you feel better if they added && or used a step like they also recommend to split these out? You can put the error handling in your script if need be, that's on you or the reader, most CI agents only understand true/false or in this case $?.

Nobody said they want that behavior, they're showing you the behavior. They actually show you the best practice behavior first, not sure if you didn't read that or are purposely omitting it. In fact, the portion you highlight, is talking about permissions, not making suggestions.

      - name: Run a script
        run: ./my-script.sh
      - name: Run another script
        run: ./my-other-script.sh

This is not a discussion about what's possible, it's a discussion about what's best. You can write your own opinion here, and it seems like we're in violent agreement, but that doesn't make our opinion GitHub's opinion.

That page is just one small part of a much larger reference document, and it doesn't seem opinionated at all to me. Plus there are dozens of other examples elsewhere in the same reference that are not simple invocations of one shell script and nowhere are you admonished not to do things that way.

And they show those patterns first. You had to take an example that is clearly about script permissions and misrepresent it. Yeah, it's not opinionated, it's fact. That's how it works...

At best, we are talking past each other. At worst, you are misreading everything I write to play gotcha games. Whatever, I'm glad you were able to figure out exactly the right things to do from a first read of a large and complex document that doesn't say anything of the sort. As for the rest of us mere mortals, we're stuck figuring these things out by trial and error, or even worse, having to pick up the pieces from somebody else's left-behind mistakes.

It's the reference manual. It's just a list of things you can do. If you like this specific thing, and think this should be the main way you express your build process, great. I think that too. Meanwhile with GitHub Actions you can also do this big pile of shit that the manual also describes: https://docs.github.com/en/actions/writing-workflows/choosin...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com