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Comment by ranger_danger | Hacker News Reader

Be that as it may, I don't think that providing additional context from either side should be perceived as "taking the word of a lunatic" just because it happens to feed your confirmation bias.

And on that note, it seems that you agree at least in theory that there has not been any actual evidence presented, yet you seemingly won't accept it because you still assume that writing an op-ed is the only thing they have done, and you've already made up your mind on this matter.

Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions?

I think it's entirely possible the student could have actually done something wrong, and either Rubio is simply not revealing it, or he actually doesn't know the details and was only told smaller bits from someone else. OR, maybe the student did not do anything besides the op-ed and the government is blowing it way out of proportion... but either seems just as plausible to me.

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> Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions?

Because people are being taken from the streets. The onus is on the people arresting her to show that they are in the right to do this. It's the United States and generally you expect people to be treated as if they're innocent until there's proof of their guilt.

If they don't know why they're do this then they shouldn't be doing it.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I also don't think that not giving evidence always means they are arresting the wrong person every time.

It's not that I trust them, I don't, and I disagree with their tactics too, which I think are being (slowly) dealt with politically and judicially, but again I don't think it inherently means everyone they arrest is completely innocent.

It turns out there is at least one innocent person down in El Salvador who they claim they "can't" get back.

I agree with you that not providing evidence at the point of arrest isn't inherently indicative of ill intent but this administration refers to people wrongly arrested as "collateral," pays money for people to go to prison outside of American jurisdiction to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes etc etc. Is there no line where your trust level would shift?

Oh I absolutely don't trust them, never have. I even mentioned that in the last message. I was just arguing on principle because people love to latch on to sensationalized stories that lack context and evidence... and usually it comes out later that it wasn't as big of a sky-is-falling event as people thought.

It's entirely possible that isn't the case here though, I don't have enough information to say. If you're referring to Abrego Garcia, it later came out that the "administrative error" was due to an informant claiming he was a gang member, but I don't think there was ever any evidence of that, so I think it's still an unknown and an ongoing case.

Certainly I think everyone should be entitled to due process though, illegal immigrant or not. And I can't tell if many of this admin's actions are willful deception or gross incompetence, or both.

Your comment that they pay money for people to go to prison explicitly "to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes" sure seems unfounded and sensationalized to me though. It might look like that but I have not seen any proof that it's intentional in the way you say it.

> Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out

Why do you assume this will ever happen?

When has it not?

How about the men already mentioned who have been shipped off to El Salvador? Action taken, people imprisoned in a foreign country where they conveniently no longer have access to the rights (until recently) afforded to them by virtue of being in the US, no evidence of any crimes committed has come out, yet the punishment is already locked in.

It is still being litigated and I am confident the evidence will come out. And if there isn't any, there are procedures for dealing with that too.

What procedures? Both the administration and Judge Boasberg assert that the court has no jurisdiction over the prisoners in El Salvador. Now that they have been remanded to El Salvador the US doesn't have jurisdiction at all.

What evidence? The administration has lready said in court that they have no evidence some of the men committed any crimes.

What's still being litigated is if the administration will be able to send any more flights to El Salvador.

Now that they have been remanded to El Salvador the US doesn't have jurisdiction at all.

The latest is because the US government is paying El Salvador $6 million dollars to keep these men incarcerated, the US essentially has jurisdiction over them.

Also, because some women were included by mistake, they had to be flown back to the US… so we know the US government could have them returned to the US if they wanted to.

> The latest is because the US government is paying El Salvador $6 million dollars to keep these men incarcerated, the US essentially has jurisdiction over them.

What's the basis for how this works legally? Would the US no longer have commitments if the deal was done for free?

> Also, because some women were included by mistake, they had to be flown back to the US… so we know the US government could have them returned to the US if they wanted to.

Were they returned by request of the US? And does that mean that the US has to follow certain procedures as if those people were still under their jurisdiction?

It seems more likely that El Salvador rejected them because their prison is only for men.

And right on que we have someone who the administration admits they wrongly sent, but also say the courts don't have the authority to bring him back:

https://archive.ph/LGs2Z

Thanks for sharing, I actually just returned to share the same news. No one saw this coming huh?

I'm not aware of any cases where it hasn't

Given the mangotude of hundreds of students being told they need to leave, the government should indeed be making very strong very bold cases.

But allegedly folks are being told to get out for resharing a post or two. Maybe more evidence could come to light! I think the government has a strong mandate to make a very strong case.

But I am highly highly dubious more than a couple of these folks are doing anything even marginally bad (in fact many i think are doing great good speaking civilly & responsibly about very bad unnecessary human suffering being caused, which is patriotic as hell imo).

This is the administration blowing up the 1st amendment, having themselves a little tantrum. Rather than say anything real, Rubio's likening the situation to trashing the couch and spray painting the kitchen is an invented offense to mask how utterly inadequate & woefully juvenile this administration is behaving, how they have nothing whatsoever to justify this political violence they are casually inflicting.

Also notable that many of these universities rely on having international students to foot the bill for American students. Ruining this funding stream further's a strong desire the right has to end universities and college, which is incredibly low & cruel terrible for everyone except the incredibly wealthy. https://www.vox.com/politics/2024/2/1/24056238/conservatives...

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