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Comment by sepositus | Hacker News Reader

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

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Perhaps we made the mistake of thinking that the people who "don't like being told to what[sic] say/think/do" actually had something resembling principles rather than a petty and childish desire to dictate what others are allowed to say/think/do.

I think what we know about disinformation shows people don't have to actually be bullied, they just have to think they're being bullied. Disinformation is cheap and apparently yields great returns.

I mean, this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us here. We just attribute everything to disinformation and throw our hands up as if none of this was avoidable. I'm convinced that people on the right were called Nazi's long enough that some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi. To the point where they think there's no hope in ever reaching them.

I saw this coming years ago. The rhetoric on both sides was never going to end up in anything remotely resembling healthy. Both sides are too busy pointing fingers now to really want to do anything about it.

No, the occasional hazy reflection of the constant barrage of "socialist/communist/Marxist" accusations from the right did not cause the problem and Democrats being even more limp-wristed would not have fixed it.

Leaders and others on the right have been embracing white (male) supremacy and Nazis, including Musk. It's not subtle; it's often brazen.

> some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi

I've never heard that. Can you give an example?

I think much of what you say comes from the right-wing disinformation machine - it's their talking points, and doesn't reflect anything I've experienced. Can you provide some evidence for any of it?

> I think much of what you say comes from the right-wing disinformation machine

Here we are again. It seems to be the default mode for anything that doesn't match the mainstream narrative. Perhaps you've never heard of it because you haven't been misidentified with the right before? As a centrist, it happens a lot, and there have been plenty of instances where I was called a Nazi.

Of course it's impossible for either one of us to prove how regularly this happens. However, it seems silly to be surprised that someone on the left is unaware of it. Of course, they are. It's completely logical, just like someone on the right being completely unaware of how the right often treats left-wing individuals.

So do you have any evidence or support what is so far an empty assertion?

"some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi"

If that's true in any significant way, there should be plenty of public examples.

Instead of engaging in a serious discussion, you resort to changing the subject, and (effectively) disinformation about me. I take that as a signal that the rest of what you say is equally baseless and only repeats the right-wing talking points.

> We just attribute everything to disinformation

The full effect that disinformation has had on Americans is probably impossible to measure, but with evidence like the Mueller report, you cannot deny that it has had some tangible effect. With Russia's efforts and the outcome of the 2016 election, I would be surprised if they did not continue and even ramp up their efforts in subsequent elections.

> We just attribute everything to disinformation and throw our hands up as if none of this was avoidable

Well yes. it was. This was avoidable, but not by those fooled with fear from lies. It came from the rational people who felt their vote didn't matter, or that fell for obvious distractions as if somehow Trump was better because their aligned candidate wasn't the perfect progressive.

>Both sides are too busy pointing fingers now to really want to do anything about it.

if you only focus on the radicals, it's not surprising you become radical yourself and cast aside the grand majority of moderates. That both sidesing narrative is also a trick.

Isn't the dictator telling people what to say/think/do far more than any government leader in US history?

But a government is supposed to tell you what to say, think, and do. This dictatorial government is actually enforcing that you say and think what they want, unlike all the others.

And yet they're being told to say/think/do every single day by Trump, Fox News, and the rest of conservative or alt right media, including people like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan.

They love being told what to think.

You can literally watch this stuff real time on the internet now. Trump does something awful. Conservatives online are confused and start asking questions. Talking points from Fox News come out and basically every single conservative online is parroting the party talking points handed down to them. No more confusion.

I always wonder what that must be like. There is no authority I trust and believe as much as they do Fox News or Trump. There's no simple answer, no easy solution. Trying to figure out what actually happened can take days, weeks, even years. And even then, it might remain unclear and there's often no certainty to be had. But for them, the answer, the cause, whatever, is there for them the very next evening. In bite-sized nuggets they can repeat without thinking.

Thank you for pointing this pattern out. I've seen it time and time again, most prominently after Jan 6. I think a big part is the manipulation of online spaces, e.g. the subreddits - threads and comments counter the narrative are quickly deleted, and they start piling onto anyone who still disagrees, calling them RINOs and so on.

It's scary just how cult-ish this pattern is.

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