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Comment by zelphirkalt | Hacker News Reader

Seeing someone wearing a suit for a dev interview would make me think one of the following:

(1) This person really really needs the job. Probably is in a bad negotiation position, due to this urgent need.

(2) Are you here to impress people with looks, or with your skills?

(3) They take looks way more serious than they should, maybe not focussing enough on the technical side of things.

(4) Hopefully this is not an "EnTeRpRiSe software" developer, and if they are, hopefully they don't work on my team and if they are, hopefully my next up manager does not get blinded by fancy clothes, instead of technical reasoning.

That said, I would try to keep an open mind about the person, but they would be initially sorted into the category of managerial or close to management, rather than close to the other engineers, which is not a positive signal to send.

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This feels like such a narrow view of the world. Not necessarily discriminatory, but on the path to get there.

So what if a candidate wants to look good? How you feel about your looks affects your confidence, and you want to be confident in an interview.

And like, if a candidate came in with a well groomed beard would you think “he probably spends too much time on his beard, he must be a bad programmer”? I bet you don’t.

I’m not trying to criticize you too much, but this just feels antithetical to everything that tech stands for. You get judged on your merits, not on anything else. This way of thinking is how you create an environment hostile to women and minorities.

Our industry in north america is known for lots its egotistical slobs, but I thought that was changing.

> So what if a candidate wants to look good? How you feel about your looks affects your confidence, and you want to be confident in an interview.

Like it or not, if someone needs to wear a suit to feel confident that says something about them. It may just be a personality quirk of them unrelated to their skills, but it often is not. There’s no reason you need to wear a suit to feel confident.

> You get judged on your merits, not on anything else. This way of thinking is how you create an environment hostile to women and minorities.

How often does tech discriminate for “culture fit” reasons? Someone’s personality fit is often a huge point of contention, and wearing a suit is part of someone’s personality and choices.

I’m not advocating for it being an absolute state, but you certainly have to give some consideration to the fact that dressing up far more than is needed implies you don’t culturally understand. It’s as simple as that.

You do see how discriminatory your statement is right?

Replace “wearing a suit” with literally anything else unrelated to programming skills. Wearing a dress. Having a particular speech pattern. Being old.

As soon as you start judging people for anything other than their performance you fucked up. People’s personality comes through in the interview process. By the end of an hour working with someone you should have a pretty good idea of what working with them is like, suit or no suit.

No, I don't. Like I said at the end:

> I’m not advocating for it being an absolute state, but you certainly have to give some consideration to the fact that dressing up far more than is needed implies you don’t culturally understand. It’s as simple as that.

I'm not saying you immediately throw a candidate out for wearing a suit. It's entirely possible I'm wrong and my mind can be changed by their performance, but it is something that would make me take a closer look.

I'll give you another example I experienced recently: a candidate who would not stop drumming their fingers on the table throughout the interview. Is that specifically related to their performance? No, not really. Is it annoying, a bit disrespectful, and shows a lack of restraint? Yeah, it is. This candidate had other flaws that made them disqualifying, but their finger drumming didn't help them at all.

[flagged]

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I understand and respect your decision to moderate my comment, and I’ll be more careful going forward.

But I would like to point out that a rule that allows someone to openly state they discriminate during interviews but forbids a strong reaction to that statement might require some examination.

Respectfully, what I’m describing is not discrimination in the hiring sense. Discrimination is unfair treatment related to immutable characteristics about a person such as race, age, gender, etc.

You could just as easily argue that people “discriminate” against candidates by making them do leetcode, when leetcode is unrelated to performance at the job. Leetcode is a performance some people look at during interviews, just like how you socially meld in an interview is a performance people look at during interviews.

Maybe the person you interviewed was on the autistic spectrum (or had ADHD) and the finger drumming was a form of stimming?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimming

I have no idea since I wasn’t there when you interviewed that person but it is something that came to mind.

You’re welcome to disagree with people and present your opposing view, but we just need you to do so without escalating into hostility and personal insults. This site exists to be a place of curious conversation, not a battleground.

> So what if a candidate wants to look good? How you feel about your looks affects your confidence, and you want to be confident in an interview.

But that is also a narrow view of the world, no? Who says a suit looks good? What if I think pajamas looks good? I am exaggerating of course, but I often think suits don't look particularly better or anything. It is just some random norm, that society has ascribed to that particular piece of clothing. I often find simple, one color only, no writing on it, clothing looking better.

> And like, if a candidate came in with a well groomed beard would you think “he probably spends too much time on his beard, he must be a bad programmer”? I bet you don’t.

I don't, but I do get a sense of them possibly being a bit vain. But more importantly, I think about why I don't wear such a beard. It is annoying when eating, and I don't want my beard in my food. So I will be a little bit baffled by their choice, but it is their choice anyway. I don't have to like it.

Sounds like we mostly agree. You don’t have to like or agree with anyone’s personal choices, but you do have to respect them and treat them fairly.

Especially if you’re an interviewer.

Sad because I /like/ wearing a suit, even to the grocery store. I know I must look weird, but I feel more comfortable with and confident in myself.

You probably wear suits that fit and the confidence probably shows through. Not to stereotype, but I suspect a large number of developers have one or two suits they wear for job interviews, weddings and funerals, and they bought them long enough ago that they are too loose or too snug by now, and consequently feel uncomfortable when wearing them. At least this used to be me.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable in any suit, not because of size or fit, but because I must be wary not to make it dirty at all, otherwise cleaning is a pita. Say you want to go for lunch with coworkers and someone orders spaghetti/pasta. Great ... I rather wear something simple, so there is no problem, if something unfortunate happens.

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