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Comment by strebler | Hacker News Reader

This is definitely one of the better (and more accurate) articles on the subject. I have been doing business in China and definitely see his view - it's easy to see why most of China's elite send their children abroad. I wouldn't live there for an extended period.

I'd say their education system (and society) tends to hammer the creativity out of people. I see strong evidence that who think differently are ridiculed. Only the strongest personalities could withstand this, and it is obvious that they often leave for greener pastures. Nurturing the free thinkers is not easy.

Superpower & housing bubble aside, first they have to figure out things like why having seatbelts in cars is important - that the individual is in fact valuable.

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When I was in China, i often ride in friends' cars. The first thing I do when I get in cars is buckling up, and I'm often ridiculed for fearing of death (i really am). Twice I sit on the passenger side and tried to put the seatbelt plate into buckle but I couldn't, because there's already a key holder in there. I learned since no passenger wear seat-belt, the driver just put the key holder there to silence the warning noise, they already have key holders in on driver's side.

This isn't just a Chinese thing. I've experienced it personally in Russia, and I've heard of it in other countries too.

It's an everywhere thing. Before seatbelts were compulsory in the UK, people used not to wear them there either. You'd have to talk to somebody who was an adult at the time - probably not many of those round here - to get the definitive answer, but I distinctly remember being confused by adults often failing to put their seatbelts on, even for quite some time after seatbelts became compulsory.

Yes thats true. I think the warnings in cars have gradually changed this and there are few holdouts now. (I didnt realize it was only 1983 they were made compulsory, so I was 14 then)

> I've experienced it personally in Russia

I call bullshit. You get fined almost always for driving unbuckled. It's actually one of the better effects of bad and greedy traffic police, who will otherwise fine you at the first available possibility (and, sigh, oftentimes impose bribe on you).

That's kind of a rude response to someone relating a personal experience. Yes, I have personally experienced Russian drivers getting offended when I try to put on a seatbelt. Maybe it's changed from when I was there last 4 years ago as it's entirely possible that they've begun cracking down on it, but this was certainly the culture not very long ago (like much of the rest of the world). I'll also note that most of my time in cars was not in Moscow or St. Petersburg. This 2010 study suggests seatbelt use is rare in parts of Russia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22414131

And here are similar experiences to mine: http://www.passportmagazine.ru/article/786/ http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23...?

Sorry if my comment came off as a little blunt, as I intended no rudeness, but I'm tired of knee-jerk comments regarding Russia. In your linked study they measure number of buckled drivers as slightly more than 50%. That's somewhat different to jamming seat buckle altogether with a key holder, don't you think?

Rear seat passengers do not wear seat belts indeed, but that's another story: lots of cars simply don't have them and it's not enforced by law.

OK, sorry if I was took it the wrong way. What I was responding to was more the seat belt usage isn't too common and people feeling offended if you as a passenger put on a seatbelt. I did not experiencing the particular situation with the key holder. China is no doubt worse, but my point was that this particular thing (lack of seatbelt usage and negative opinion about them) says little about China given that it's a fairly worldwide phenomenon.

In China the seat belts in Taxi's are so dirty, if they have them at all (most are removed), that if you put the belt on, your clothes will be filthy when you get out. That is because the seat belts are never used. So it is your safety or or cleanliness and appearance -- even I am reluctant to cover myself with filth for a short trip.

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