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Comment by RiverCrochet | Hacker News Reader

Something my half-brother said ...

"Cheap foreign products are a necessity when so-called American companies don't love Americans enough to pay them what they're worth. It's the whole reason things went overseas in the first place. It's gonna be nice if we can finally get American companies to actually support America and pay citizens what they're worth."

The above sounds nice, but it's oversimplified, like a lot of political rhetoric recently. Now, if this does end up making real living wages for the American worker a commonplace thing, that's awesome, but I'm pessimistic given the history of things, how money can influence politics, and how corporate lawyers can find loopholes.

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I'm not sure if it would pan out like how your half-brother wants it to be. Let's assume the manufacturing jobs return here and you are getting paid American wages. But if you try to turn around and spend it on anything, it will just be more expensive because everything else you want to buy is also being made in US factories and those workers are also getting pay similar to yours? You might have a manufacturing job finally but now you are paying $350 for a Nike shoe that used to be $150 when it was made in China. You want to buy a new TV? It costs more now. You want to upgrade your old iPhone? It costs more now.

So will the American manufacturing wages actually translate to living wages or will you just be getting paid more on paper but you still feel poor because the things you want to buy are all more expensive now?

what if the manufacturing is largely automated and state side ?

If everything is automated then where do people work?

If only some things are automated, then yes those places will have an advantage when it comes to labor costs, but they will use it to pad their profit margin.

Factory X employs humans ands sells widgets for $100, but their costs are $90, so profit is $10.

Factory Y is automated and they have costs of $10. Do they sell their widget at $30, thus earning a handsome profit of $20? No, they charge $90 and earn an obscene profit of $80. The worker gets screwed, the shareholders get richer.

This whole thing only works if workers have ownership in the corporation, but that's gasp socialism and we can't have that.

the same places they work now, displacing foreign workers shouldn’t effect American workers?

if the goods are made and exported from American factories the owners of those factories will be increasing the local, state and federal tax bases, how is that not an improvement over offshoring production?

workers are currently being screwed by globalist companies offshoring production and also using that as a way to offshore profits also, i doubt any workers will shed tears if that stops.

socialism as you described is fine, not sure how its relevant in this case, its perfectly legal to start coops and they exist even in the tech world, most people dont seek them out and it appears they underperform their peers, where are all the major coop tech companies?

> “It's gonna be nice if we can finally get American companies to actually support America and pay citizens what they're worth.”

Posters are skeptical because prices will raise across the board for these good. You ask:

> “what if they are largely automated”

If that’s the case, and they work where they work now as you say, then Americans will just get poorer as things become more expensive due to tariffs. The factory owner is keeps all the protectionist profits. Maybe some of that goes back into the tax base but we know these types are good at paying 0% taxes.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. That’s why socialism is relevant, because that’s the system under which this idea at a national scale actually helps workers, whereas this idea under capitalism helps mainly capitalists. Which is why I’m so confused because you keep talking about workers in your post, but that’s not who this is for.

Genuine question but did folks feel poor during the heyday of the middle class? It seems like there was a period post-ww2 where you could make a living wage and still buy a house and sends your kids to college.

I'm not sure what the answer here is, but it does seem like this is something that has existed. Consumerism was pretty rampant in the 50s and 60s when a lot more was still made in the US.

growing wealth inequality :)

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

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