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Comment by untog | Hacker News Reader

Sigh.

Personally, I don't have a problem with people being negative. 99% of startups fail, and I think it's worthwhile reminding people of that every now and then. Hacker News shouldn't live in some magical land where everyone is going to make the next billion dollar company.

If you truly, genuinely, believe in your idea then you can take the negativity in your stride. There will be plenty of constructive feedback buried in there somewhere. If you can't take a little negativity directed towards your project, then maybe you're in the wrong business. And maybe it is a bad idea. Sometimes it's best to find that out and move onto a new idea, rather than bathe in the vague compliments of your peers.

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> And maybe it is a bad idea.

^This.

Sometimes people feel very passionate about something and they get tunnel vision. They invest hours, weeks, years on something and to them it is going to be the next big thing that will get the girl, kill the baddies... and save the entire planet[1]. But guess what? Sometimes... sometimes... it really is just shit. Sorry to tell you this but your idea sucks... or the execution sucks... or both. [strawman alert] If all you want to hear is how awesome it is, then go show it to your mum. I'm sure she'll tell you how special you are and that you can do no wrong.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aD3XSOBCxk

If all you want to hear is how awesome it is, then go show it to your mum. I'm sure she'll tell you how special you are and that you can do no wrong.

Sounds like a strawman to me. Who here has said anything about wanting nothing but positivity, or to be told how awesome they are? Even negativity can be combined with encouragement and support. And it doesn't really cost anymore to do that.

A. "Your idea is pretty bad. You suck. Kill yourself."

B. "Your idea is pretty bad; have you considered XXX? At any rate, best of luck to you!"

OK, to be fair, (B) cost a few more characters of typing for the pedants in the audience. But there's no significant extra cost involved with throwing a little encouragement and support someone's way.

Mindcrime hits the nail on the head. I don't want people telling me how awesome my project is - no where in my OP have I said that. My mum would be my toughest critic but she'd also be my fairest and explain to me what she liked but more importantly how something I'd done could be made better. That's what HN was to me - a place for amazing constructive feedback. Constructive feedback is something much different to criticism - which is where HN finds itself today imo.

The 11K Club: I like the site design. I think the muted wood grain back ground is kind of cool. I have no idea what the site is for. The ToS scares me (The more people you refer ... the higher your chances of becoming a member ~ o_0)

Favilous: It looks like a bookmarking site. Solid site design and layout. Not too cluttered. I don't use bookmarking sites so I can't really comment on how it is different/better than other bookmarking sites.

Edit: Ok I see from posts here what 11kclub is. I'm not sure why user napillo is hellbanned but [s?]he makes a good point here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4397318

> Sounds like a strawman to me.

ya... probably is. Thanks for the feedback. ;) Although, the OP pretty much says "I hate you all because all you ever say is mean things" so there is that.

If all you want to hear is how awesome it is, then go show it to your mum. I'm sure she'll tell you how special you are and that you can do no wrong.

Your account was created a little short of a year ago. We are talking about how the newer crop is rude and sarcastic and how that has ruined the quality of the old HN and then you post this. There is no call for it, you could have easily worded your post to say "hey everyone thinks their idea is great, but sometimes we have to help them see reality". Instead you reinforce the very issue, that has caused the decline. Seriously it's sarcastic, condescending and rude.

Dearest Sir or Madam, thank you for providing me with this valuable feedback. I value your opinion as a fellow HN member and Human (if I may make that assumption). However, it is with deep regret that I inform you that the very first word of your comment contains a typo. Sincerely, Jack.R.Abbit

tl;dr: *Your

You personify the problem, this kind of valueless snark is not welcome here.

As the OP was suggesting, I'm just trying to provide my feedback in a more pleasant way. On the other hand, your feedback seems to be rather harsh and all negative. Unless you were trying to be ironic. In which case I say brilliant!

ORLY?

You:

* implied the possibly they might not be a human (perhaps a bot?)

* used exceedingly formal language in an informal setting, fully knowing this appears like you are talking down to someone

* noted they made a typo - the "valueless" part mentioned

* say it is with "deep regret" that you noted that typo - I doubt you had any regret whatsoever

In short, your comment does highlight the issues fairly well.

You lost me for a minute there with parts of your comment until I realized you were thinking this was a different comment from months ago. But you got it for the most part. I was not suggesting they were not human. I was trying not to offend them if, in fact, they turned out not to be human (I was thinking alien... not bot... bots don't get offended). While formal language can be thought of as lofty these days when no one really speaks like that, it is also how people used to speak. It always cracks me up when I see movies set in that day and the people say the most absurd, inane things yet seem to do it so eloquently and with a smile. They make it seem so pleasant. I was going for old-timey pleasant... not current day lofty. True, pointing out a typo is largely useless, but it was necessary due to my previous point about lofty/pleasant language. True, I had no regret. Really, I was just trying to illustrate that rolling a turd in chocolate and nuts does not make it an Almond Roca.

I agree. Perhaps ppl need to preface their posts by saying they're doing a project for fun, and not to make money. That would soften some of the comments. But if ppl really think a project is doomed as a business, I'd prefer it they tell me the truth, even if it hurts.

If anything, the quality of the posts here are starting to suck because very few actually help you make money. I don't care about the latest PhantomJS technology, etc. There needs to be more ppl like patio11.

At first I wanted to disagree with what you'd said and I'd half written a reply about how being negative is an opportunity to learn how to be positive.

However, when I considered your point of view, I choose to agree with you. This is what I like (and find maddening at the same time) about HN it's a great way to get a totally different perspective.

Right, a community of "haters" may be better than a community of "lovers." That goes against every fiber of my being, but the fact is, life's tough, and you're more likely to be right if you're negative.

However, it does shock me how Hacker News just hates absolutely everything. I was so shocked when Nexus 7 first came out and the thread piled up with hundreds of negative comments just blasting Google for it. It was a break-through to have such a tablet at $200, and there should have been at least equal levels of hate and love.

> Hacker News just hates absolutely everything

I think the accurate statement would be: Absolutely everything will find some people on Hacker News that hate it.

If someone wants to build a billion-dollar company they deserve (and need) a lot of criticism.

However, if someone just wants to get a couple hundred thousand dollars over the next 2 years, the same level of criticism is not needed.

If this is the case, why even allow for comments? Just have a bot that auto-responds a bunch of times with randomly generated comments that 99% of the time is "Your idea sucks. You should do something else that is worthwhile."

Because despite the OP's lament, not all feedback is negative. I posted a project and got both positive and negative feedback, I found both useful.

untog also wrote There will be plenty of constructive feedback buried in there somewhere..

Constructive feedback is generally what you want. Positive vs negative is more about mood than content - and there is plenty of worthless positive feedback out there.

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