Hacker News Reader

Comment by rdtsc | Hacker News Reader

> There was moral clarity in West and South Europe

Indeed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_declaration_of_war_on_.... Both Britain and France declared war on Germany because they made guarantees to Poland about it.

> ... in the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence, and which the Polish Government accordingly considered it vital to resist with their national forces, His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power.

That is unambiguous and clear. They kept their word.

It is tragic in the end that after the war they handed Poland over to Stalin. Poland still had its independence threatened but after having supplied and helped Stalin all that time, it was awkward having to declare war against him as well.

View on HN

> they kept their word

After not upholding the 1924 pact (France) with Czechoslovakia

That ‘defence’ of Poland mainly consisted of doing nothing, in the Phoney War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War

That’s fair. It sort of like on “paper” they fulfilled their obligation, shot a few rounds and quickly ran away. And like we mentioned even in the end they gave Poland over to Stalin. So they won the war, but officially the reason they got into it was not redressed. Not until the Soviet Union fell, years later.

That’s true. Abandoning the Czechs was embarrassing. That was probably a factor in then choosing to at least do the right thing for Poland. Otherwise it started to look really embarrassing for them: here are these great powers and they do not keep their word. That looked very weak.

The lesson from history is that appeasing tyrants only encourages them. And we would be well to remember it.

The political situation in the 1930s was thoroughly messed up. Britain and France may have had mainly good intentions, but their policies did not prevent the disasters.

Great Britain should have made a pact with the Soviet Union against Hitler much earlier.

Poland was in an extremely difficult situation. But the decision to invade Czechoslovakia with the Germans was certainly not a good idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

> Britain and France may have had mainly good intentions, but their policies did not prevent the disasters.

They had an absolute lack of appetite for fighting since the WWI was not long ago. I don't know if the Germans were smart enough to understand that and fully took advantage of it or were just lucky. For the Germans it worked with Czechoslovakia so they figured it would work with Poland as well.

Stalin I think is more interesting. He was prepared to "defend" the Czechs as well. He just needed permission to take his armies across Poland and Romania. He quickly switched sides after the agreement and signed the Soviet-German agreement.

Not too long ago I also learned about the secret military cooperation between the Soviets and the Germans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_r.... The German air force was training its pilots in the Soviet Union:

> In 1925, a flying school was established near Lipetsk (Lipetsk fighter-pilot school) to train the first pilots for the future Luftwaffe

Reading that it's like reading some alternative universe fan-fiction. So that makes Stalin's position interesting. He was supposed to be allied with the French and the British officially but non-officially was assisting the Germans.

"Having tried and failed to negotiate a suitable treaty of alliance with the British and French, and fearing an Anglo-French design of involving them in a war with Germany which they would have to fight alone, the Soviets turned to a deal with Hitler."

"The Soviet Union and the Origins of the Second World War" Russo-German Relations and the Road to War, 1933-1941

Geoffrey Roberts

https://api.pageplace.de/preview/DT0400.9781349241248_A35684...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com