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Comment by vitaflo | Hacker News Reader

I have the same issues. I actually had to return an iPhone because the oled screens they use are so bad and gave me migraines.

For bulbs tho I found this site that tests tons of them for flicker.

https://flickeralliance.org/

It was a godsend and I was able to get some Ikea bulbs with zero flicker and they’ve been great. So at least my house isn’t a flickering mess. Now I just gotta figure out a phone that’s not garbage.

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How did you survive office buildings, airports, department stores etc. prior to leds? I am by no means sensitive to flicker, but fluorescent tubes which were used in pretty much every office building/large department store, before leds became common, used to flicker like crazy in comparison. And there was always at least one which was broken and flickered on and off very slowly (including the characteristic sound).

Not well. But at least I had windows at work to counteract it and I could turn the lights off. I also was a contractor for 15 years which meant working from my home mostly.

Strangely tho there is something about PWM flicker, especially the kind that is deep cycle (basically 100% on then 100% off) that are super bad for me. I can look at an old CRT fine because it’s not completely on and off as it does it’s scanlines. But PWM is like flicking a light switch rapidly and it gives me the worst headaches.

Yes, exactly that, modulation depth. The screen goes completely dark, and our brains don't like it because: 1. It's stressful that something disappears abruptly. 2. It's stressful that it later appears a bit shifted in space.

Thanks for the link! I bought a moto g power 5G - 2024. It has an LED screen. I've been using this line of phone for years. It's morning fancy, but at least I can actually look at it.

If you are sensitive, I would recommend getting an Opple Light Master. It's a tiny and cheap flicker meter.

Does this also affect Macbooks?

In my testing no, the MacBooks are fine. It’s the phones that are a problem. Easiest way to tell is get a camera app you can set the shutter speed to 10,000 fps and point it at a screen. If there are black lines across the screen there is a PWM issue. The thicker and darker the black lines the worse it is.

10,000fps, or 1/10,000 of a second?

Asking because I don't have a Phantom at home.

The latter. But it’s the preview you’re looking at. You’re not actually taking a photo.

A camera app can't set a phone camera to 10,000 fps. So the question is what does it do?

Due to rolling shutter, you take a “progressive” photo. As a result, if the screen flickers during that time, you see this change in light intensity as horizontal bars.

Thicker bars means a lower PWM frequency, hence lower quality light/brightness control.

I think it varies by model. The 14" & 16" MacBook Pros with the miniLED give me and many others PWM issues. On the other hand, the MacBook Air models with the notch don't seem to bother most people.

I have an Air and agree these are great for people sensitive to PWM like myself.

Yes, the Air with the notch (M2, M3, M4) is specifically PWM free. There is some sort of display issue with the "OG" M1 Air screens for many.

Yes, some MacBook models are affected.

The MacBook Air displays with the notch do not have PWM and do not seem to bother people. The 14/16" Pro models seem to be quite bad for most people (I had to return my new 14" model, it was rough).

The first PWM MacBook I bought was the 16" MacBook Pro from 2019 (the last Intel model). I'd had a 2018 MBP 15" and couldn't figure out why I just couldn't stand looking at the new 16". I thought I had a bad display but ended up learning about PWM.

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