Comment by CPLX | Hacker News Reader

Comment by CPLX | Hacker News Reader

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That was the original criticism, or rather the cynical attempt to block it.

It hasn't panned out that way at all however, it's just great for everyone.

OK, actually not everyone. There's one very specific group that this sucks for, which not-coincidentally was the group that was loudly opposing it using the excuse you tried.

That group is people who work for the city and/or are connected so they get free daily parking. That's a lot of cops and firefighters and various city functionaries at various levels and agencies that have been able to get their hands on parking placards. It's a core NYC subculture and they were the annoying loud voices that tried to stop this.

Almost anyone who was driving into central Manhattan and paying for parking already is thrilled by this, it's only a little more expensive and in exchange they shave hours of traffic out of their commutes.

It's the people that were gaming the system to get free parking that are suddenly screwed. Fuck them.

> It hasn't panned out that way at all however, it's just great for everyone.

Oh, come now. Try a little bit harder to see the other side.

Live here, don't have a car -- haven't had one for 20 years. Ride the subway every day.

I freely acknowledge that the roads feel less crowded, but it makes no practical difference to me. As far as I am concerned, the entire thing is a small net loss, in that it's another tax, and on the rare occasions I do actually need a car or a service that requires a car (plumber, mover, etc.) it costs me more.

I look at congestion pricing purely as a question of "do I consent to another tax for the MTA?", and when framed in that way, the answer is emphatically "No."

> on the rare occasions I do actually need a car or a service that requires a car (plumber, mover, etc.) it costs me more.

That's the part you have to prove. I bet your statement is factually incorrect.

It's literally added on a as service fee. You want receipts or something? This is standard stuff -- go ride in a taxi and you'll see the same thing.

I encourage you to adopt this level of skepticism to claims on both sides of this debate, and not just things that violate your pre-conceptions of the world.

Edit: not that I use FreshDirect, but it took me about 30 seconds of searching to find this obvious example.

https://nypost.com/2025/01/09/business/freshdirect-quietly-s...

Well yes if you are in a car on the congestion pricing area it costs money. Of course it does, that the point.

Your argument is that there are indirect costs. That’s the part that has to be proven.

Some company using it as an excuse to add a junk fee is anecdotal but hardly conclusive. It’s about as much evidence as a hotel saying they didn’t bring me new towels because they care about the environment.

> Some company using it as an excuse to add a junk fee is anecdotal but hardly conclusive. It’s about as much evidence as a hotel saying they didn’t bring me new towels because they care about the environment.

Got it. I show you an example of exactly what you ask for, from one of the most common delivery services in NYC, and you dismiss it as a "junk fee".

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

I mean my bias is that we started with crippling traffic congestion and not enough money for transit and now we have instantly obvious improvements in congestion and more money for transit. And no visible downsides whatsoever.

You having to pay fifty cents more for FreshDirect is not a persuasive counter argument. Especially since that’s not actually an indirect cost at all.

Your order is quite literally causing more traffic congestion, directly, as the car pulls up in front of your apartment and double parks while some guy hand delivers your yogurt or whatever.

> Your order is quite literally causing more traffic congestion, directly, as the car pulls up in front of your apartment and double parks while some guy hand delivers your yogurt or whatever.

I told you that I don't use FreshDirect. You asked for an example of companies passing through the cost, and I provided one.

It's a bit absurd though. The roads are paid by tax payers from the general fund of the city, but they discriminate on how much it costs to use those roads based on where you live. If everyone entering the zone paid the same then it would be one thing. But they have exemptions and deductions based on residency and income. If they are going to charge people who don't live in the area and not charge the people who do live in the area, then the people in the area should have to buy all the roads and pay for the upkeep.

> It's a bit absurd though. The roads are paid by tax payers from the general fund of the city, but they discriminate on how much it costs to use those roads based on where you live. If everyone entering the zone paid the same then it would be one thing. But they have exemptions and deductions based on residency and income. If they are going to charge people who don't live in the area and not charge the people who do live in the area, then the people in the area should have to buy all the roads and pay for the upkeep.

These aren't deep moral questions. You're trying to draw some sort of universal fairness doctrine around this that doesn't apply. It's just public policy. The people who live in the area are buying all the roads, through various taxes and fees.

Roads don't work the way you describe. Are you aware that there's literally no way to drive to Long Island without going through New York City? Or that driving from Princeton New Jersey to Providence Rhode Island requires going through New York City or driving about 40-50 miles out of the way? Why is all this solely the problem of people who live in Manhattan below Central Park again?

To someone who can't afford to drive it might seem absurd to be paying for roads with their taxes in the first place. Driving has been generally subsidized for so long that it's easy to forget it's subsidized at all. The backlash to proposals for free public transport demonstrates this.

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