Edit: totally unrelated, but PhDs in the West basically seem to be immigration schemes, and universities are happy to play along.
The difference is that in graduate school, there's little or no bias in favor of in-state candidates, whereas for state universities, it's basically their mission statement to make dedicated space for in-state undergraduates.
Keep in mind that graduate school admission is controlled by the individual academic departments, but individual academic departments don't directly get tuition money from its students. The professors on the admissions committee don't care how much tuition the students pay.
I'm confident that all professors are aware of the revenue streams of their universities and are incentivized to maximize those revenue streams, even if only implicitly.
I'm confident that they aren't.
Furthermore, professors have to work personally with their grad students. Teach them, advise them, employ them, publish with them, recommend them for jobs. It's ridiculous to suggest that they're choosing their students based on in-state vs. out-state tuition. That's the very last thing they give a damn about. Do you have any first-hand knowledge of graduate school?
> Teach them, advise them
These two actions are required.
> employ them, publish with them, recommend them for jobs
These actions are not required, at least at the American state university my girlfriend attended.
> It's ridiculous to suggest that they're choosing their students based on in-state vs. out-state tuition.
It's not ridiculous when there's such an obvious institutional incentive, even if it makes their personal lives a little more difficult.
Also, you seem to be making an argument that out-of-state or international students are less capable than in-state students, enough that it would negate the incentive of different tuition rates.
What evidence do you have to support that?
I wasn't aware that there was such a program. Anyway, there's a huge difference between Masters and PhD.
> These two actions are required.
The first, anyway. ;-)
But you seem to be missing the point. Professors are required to teach the graduate students, but the graduate admissions committee isn't required to admit any specific person or type of person. The professors get to choose who they want to teach and advise.
> These actions are not required
What's your point? Professors generally want to do these things. They need teaching assistants, they need lab assistants, they need research assistants. Professors recommend their advisees for jobs, just like the professors' professors recommended them for jobs when they were advisees; that's what you do, and what you want to do to futher your own reputation as a professor.
> It's not ridiculous when there's such an obvious institutional incentive, even if it makes their personal lives a little more difficult.
Universities are not rigidly hierarchical. Academic departments and tenured professors have a lot of power and independence. They actually don't have to sacrifice their personal lives for the sake of some administrator's goal.
> Also, you seem to be making an argument that out-of-state or international students are less capable than in-state students
Not at all. In fact, admitting in-state students is not particularly common in elite PhD programs, even at state universities. The reason has nothing to do with tuition and everything to do with competition: the admissions committee is free to pick the best applicants from wherever. I already mentioned this in an earlier comment: "The difference is that in graduate school, there's little or no bias in favor of in-state candidates, whereas for state universities, it's basically their mission statement to make dedicated space for in-state undergraduates."
I also said, "Many graduate students get tuition waivers, so this [tuition] is largely irrelevant."
I focused on your use of the term "graduate student" and applied that to master students as well, which, in the context of the post that triggered this discussion, doesn't make a lot sense.
I apologize for that and appreciate your patience & clarification.
This is contrary to my life experience (even for math or physics PhDs).
What makes a great PhD thesis is to question an insane lot of assumptions of deep results in the field of your PhD thesis, and show that if you base these on a very different foundation, these results generalize to whole different areas; e.g. you found a bridge between seemingly unrelated areas of studies.
On the other hand, managers deeply hate it if you question a lot of assumptions behind the work that you do, whether it is some special case of something deeper, and aren't obedient to the manager's leadership.
In other words: a great PhD program teaches you to think and work all the time on things managers will hate you for.
With such an attitude it would have only been a matter of time before they hit up the immovable part of academia as well.
Here is something on Australia :
https://theconversation.com/australia-has-way-more-phd-gradu...
Key quotes :
The number of PhD completions has been steadily growing over the past two decades, from about 4,000 to about 10,000 per year.
According to our calculations* based on the information available, the cumulative number of people in Australia with a PhD has increased from about 135,000 in 2016 to about 185,000 in 2021.
The incentives are for Universities to get smart young people to do their work cheaply.
What happens to the graduates afterwards ceases to be the University's problem.
The only strange thing about it is that the smart young people are taking so long to figure it out.
I don't think it's so strange. They're smart in their chosen fields, but intelligence is not wisdom or hard experience. Moreover, intelligence breeds confidence, often overconfidence, the idea that you'll be the one to beat the odds. I suppose the same thing happens to young, talented athletes, for example.
Quite the opposite: intelligence is linked to depression: https://engl105sp2020.web.unc.edu/2020/02/is-there-a-link-be...
2) IQ is pseudoscience.
3) "Karpinski and her team emailed several members of a group named “American Mensa” OMG just stop right there.
4) "The authors of this study could not find a similar group of average intelligence people to utilize as a control group, so they used national data regarding disorders of people with any range of intelligence and assumed overall intelligence would be average." Garbage.
They find out very fast, but come to the conclusion that academia is one of the few places where their intelligence is valued.
It might have been better executed- somehow matching the increased supply of grad students with increase supply of faculty positions, or perhaps just growing it more slowly to let the inequalities equilibrate a bit more. But ultimately, I think it was a good thing, in that it increased the total science being done.