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Comment by lacker | Hacker News Reader

Apply for a PhD. If you get in, you can bail after you get your master's, and they pay you if you are a PhD student. A professor at a top-25 CS grad school once told me they accept almost every American citizen who applies to the PhD program because it's so much cheaper - so worst case, you should be able to go to a well-known school that has merely a good CS program.

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> "because it's so much cheaper"

... cheaper to pay Ph.D. students than full time staff you mean? Or am I reading this wrong?

As I wasn't exactly an all-star in undergrad (3.52), I'm trying the route of getting a masters at a second tier school (and attempting to be an all-star while I'm there) in the hopes of leveraging that to get into a top tier school.

Also gives me an easy way to bail if I find I don't like it as much as I hope I do.

Of course, if this plan is idiotic, someone should point that out. The CS school employs a lot of Masters students for TA/RA positions, so I'm not too worried on the money front.

No, he means its "so much cheaper" to pay for American Grad Students versus foreign ones who need Student Visas. I've been told by a professor who's brought in Chinese grad students (he himself is Chinese) that its really hit and miss. And you put up a bond for their visa -- they bail on your program or commit a felony, that's your grant/research/grad student funding money going out the window. It doesn't happen very frequently, but it does happen.

Another situation with foreign grad students is that they get here, and after a year or two of abuse in a lab, they go get a life, and get married or (iff female) get pregnant. Then, their work ethic trends "Average American" and they adopt the "take this job and shove it" attitude.

Just in case you didn't know, publish. Your research - as evidenced by publications - has more weight than your GPA when you apply to Ph.D. programs.

I did not know this about American citizens, but it seems unlikely. My intuition is quite the opposite: because Ph.D programs are drastically more competitive than master's programs (higher average test scores, GPAs, and lower rate of admissions, at least at my university), my chances of being accepted into a super-competitive program would be more feasible on the master's level.

I'm a Ph.D. student in Computer Science. I originally only applied for Master's programs. I was rejected by all of the schools I wanted to go to. I eventually ended up in a good Ph.D. program, but that was largely by chance.

You're better off applying for a Ph.D. program, then bailing after earning your Master's. It's not good for the school, but it's better for you.

Your understanding of the problem is what's wrong, not your analysis. You're thinking of the Ph.D. pool and the Master's pool as independent of each other. They're not. Funding for Master's and Ph.D. students comes from the same pool, and many programs won't admit students they won't fund. So the question sometimes comes down to, "Do we admit this Master's student or this Ph.D. student?"

Ph.D. students are an investment: they eventually publish papers with the university's name, and in academic settings, the university's name will forever be attached to that person. Master's students often don't publish, and upon graduation are generally not in circles that care about pedigree.

I applied to master's programs because I wasn't sure that I was going to get a PhD. It was a mistake. Top schools don't like master's students, and don't fund them by default. Some professors were confused as to why I didn't apply for a PhD after reading my application. One professor told me to never mention that I wanted a master's degree. Some top schools consider master's students to be a lower form of life than PhD students, and they have to reapply to switch to PhD status. Professors don't take you seriously if you're a master's student. I got accepted into my top choice, but it meant absolutely nothing because there was no funding and little chance of professors acknowledging a master's student's existence.

It's a silly game, and you have to play it right. If you want a master's degree and are unsure about the PhD, apply to a PhD program. If you just want a master's, apply to a PhD program. If you would rather stab yourself than stick around for a PhD, apply to a PhD program. If you want to be treated decently, have research opportunities and perhaps some money, apply to a PhD program.

In a nutshell, if you want to go to grad school, apply to a PhD program.

Luckily I was accepted into a decent school with an assistantship and the ability to switch to PhD if I want to.

Any idea why it's "so much cheaper"

I'm not at all convinced that this rumor is true. Having said that, there is certainly a big pile of grants and fellowships that preferentially target US citizens.

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