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Comment by scarface_74 | Hacker News Reader

Two of the arguments just aren’t true.

If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google.

The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web.

Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Android and why do companies that produce iOS apps still create Android apps instead of telling Android users to just use the web?

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Yes but there's no reason to use another browser today, because the browsers aren't able to add differentiating features.

I don't think you are correct to assume games can't go to the web. Any feature they need from native APIs can be added to the web. Full screen, gyro, vibration, multi touch, payment APIs, notifications, WASM and GPU support are already on the web!

Then why aren’t profitable games based on web technology on Android if it is just Apple holding it back?

But it’s not about the technology even then. Games make money via in app purchases by whales. In app purchasing is easy and they are able to tap into kids spending money. Most parents aren’t going to put their credit cards on kids phones. They will let kids do in app purchases with parental controls that are available on the App Store.

Considering Apple isn't even a go-to choice for gamers, the idea that iOS's minority market-share is holding back Windows, Android (and even macOS), is nothing short of farcical b/s-ing.

Heck, most developers don't even produce versions of their games for any Apple hardware, even though there are plenty of cross-platform development suites.

I think you are misinterpreting what “games” are. Mobile gaming and in app purchases of loot boxes and other pay to win mechanics are a much bigger market than console or PC games.

Though Apple’s current level of web app support is sufficient to build those kinds of titles as web apps, but we aren’t seeing a web app gold rush, and even if there was zero web app support - why not develop one anyway so Android, Windows, Linux and Mac have a shared web app, instead of 4+ separate binaries.

Because HN users won’t admit that it isn’t Apple holding back PWAs - it’s the technology, the business use case, and the fact that the majority of Android phones out in the wild are too underpowered.

Web browsers aren't supposed to have differentiating features. There's a web standard that everyone's supposed to agree on and implement.

> If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google.

Yes, but this would limit the browser technology to Apple's implementation, or lack there of.

> Those apps are not going to the web.

It's likely because the mobile browsers don't support enough graphics and lacking robust control features of native applications.

> Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple ...

Having wide browser support across all operating systems would definitely increase the adoption speed of new technologies. Remember how IE7 kept us back for years?

That being said, a lot of people are bothered by Apple's success and would like to access to iOS ecosystem without paying anything to them.

That still isn’t logical. If Apple is the only thing holding great web apps back, then why don’t companies just spend money on a web app + iOS app instead of also creating an Android app?

Even if they did an iOS app + web app for Android, if it were just Apple, they would still save money on Android Play Store fees.

But the truth is that browsers aren’t good enough on Android even though it is “open” [sic] and most Android phones sold are so underpowered that you have to make a native app to get any type of responsiveness.

Having the Firefox engine or Chrome engine isn’t going to make it any better. If the alternate browsers that are on the Mac are any indication from both companies - they are going to be slower and less battery efficient.

> Having the Firefox engine or Chrome engine isn’t going to make it any better.

Nothing is going to change in the short term for sure. Users also prefer the responsive feeling of native apps in general, though progressive web apps might help slightly.

I still believe that the EU started with the correct intentions with the DMA. They saw a need to increase the competition in the digital marketplace. However, it slowly turned into a public trial of Apple and transferring the ownership of iOS ecosystem to public domain almost.

How will responsive web apps help when most Android users aren’t buying top of the line phones and app makers have to create a native app to get any type of responsiveness?

Facebook for instance realized years ago that it would have to make real native apps to get decent performance instead of the app being a web wrapper.

I'm all for native apps. And you're right about the performance. PWA would only work for very simple stuff.

The end-goal is to turn Apple into a pure hardware vendor so that they can get direct access to end-users.

1. If you use either "Safari" or "Chrome" on iOS, then Apple gets paid. That's 97% of the market on iOS.

2. Many of those games could be rewritten in WebGPU/WebGL2.. if it saved them 30% appstore tax, and the install process was decent and they had frictionless payments, they'd move.

3. Because Apple is the primary target market, and if you've already built native for iOS, what's the advantage of doing web for Android if your not making the cost savings of only having to build one app. 70% of Desktop usage is now the web/web apps... that tells you what's possible if browsers can compete.

That’s not true. Apple only gets paid for search going through Safari to Google.

If the game makers are do interested in saving the 30% tax, then why aren’t they making the games web based for Android? Gabe makers want the easy in app purchases and getting kids who while they don’t have credit cards on their phones, do have access to buy content in apps with parental controls.

How is iOS the primary market when 70% of mobile phones both worldwide and in the EU are on Android?

If they already have a web app for PCs, then why do they need to make an Android app too if web apps are so great on Android?

And if the web makes such a good platform for games, then why aren’t there more great games on the web that would run on PCs and Android unmodified?

I think the argument is that as long as 3p browsers are forced to be just thin WebKit wrappers, it's harder for them to compete against. Why even bother switching from the default when it's going to be the same slop with a different brand?

Most people don’t care about the web engine. The ones who use Chrome now on Android care about bookmarks syncing, Google passwords, etc.

How about you let the browser makers decide whether they need to have their own engine to compete?

The fact is that Apple makes tens of billions in pure profit from Safari, and by closing off one of the principal ways of browser differentiation have ensured that they don't even need to invest in Safari. They can just lean back, safe in the knowledge that there is no risk of disruption.

(Like, the main selling point of Firefox on Android is support for browser extensions, and they're only able to do that thanks to having their own browser engine rather than using the platform-provided one.)

You never know where exactly the next steps in browser innovation are going to come from, but it is virtually guaranteed that they won't be just in the UI chrome. If you're e.g. going to make the best agentic AI browser in the world, it's not going to happen by reskinning Safari, and as a corollary Apple doesn't need to worry about competing with such a browser.

Yes because of all the great browser innovation on Android there are a plethora of great web apps on Android and companies are taking advantage of it so they can make one app that serves computer users over the web and Android users?

And Safari has had real browser extensions for years on iOS.

Where is the browser “innovation” on Android - the platform with 70% market share?

Last I checked, Firefox isn’t doing to well on Android either…

Firefox’s market share on mobile is 0.53%.

https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/world...

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