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Comment by jahewson | Hacker News Reader

That’s not true. It lasted 3 months, which was the entire duration of the agreed phase 1. Phase 2 did not begin because Hamas turned the hostage/body releases into a propaganda circus [1] and refused to accept modified terms for phase 2 that prevented this.

I don’t love either party’s behavior here, but there’s no need to mislead like this.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/20/world/middleeast/israel-h...

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2 months but you're right, it wasn't "immediately". Bad memory on my part. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Gaza_war_ceasefire

I still maintain that Netanyahu would gladly sacrifice hostages to keep the war hot. And that NYT article is a fascinating artifact in highlighting Israeli feelings of anguish while Palestinians are killed en masse.

I wish the dominant strain of Palestinian support online made room for people that are happy to condemn Netanyahu and his allies as atrocious, hateful, evil human beings and to condemn the clear excessive force the Israeli army is currently using but aren't willing to completely gloss over October 7th, aren't on board with protests against Israel on October 8th, and want to hold Hamas (and ultimately Qatar and Iran) responsible for their part in all this.

If people hadn't started accusing Israel (and Biden, somehow) of genocide basically on October 8, perhaps there'd be less debate right now. It's really frustrating to both feel that Israel can do no right (the pager attack, while obviously viscerally terrifying, had objectively incredible combatant/innocent ratios compared to literally any other way of prosecuting war, and it's the height of hypocrisy for people claiming that Israel should simply special forces snipe every Hamas fighter individually to criticize it) and at the same time fully agree that Netanyahu and the settlers are shithead monster assholes and that civilian casualties are now inexcusable, beyond a reasonable doubt.

> If people hadn't started accusing Israel (and Biden, somehow) of genocide basically on October 8,

People started accusing Israel, and its American sponsors, of genocide long before October 8; that Israel is engaged in s campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people has been the dominant position in pro-Palestinian activist circles for decades.

People started paying attention more after October 7, 2023, but that's not when the accusations began.

Sure, but I would say that the current dominant strain took form and its volume got cranked up very noticeably October 8. Which was not a great look, even to those sympathetic to criticisms of Netanyahu.

> Sure, but I would say that the current dominant strain took form and its volume got cranked up very noticeably October 8

So did the genocide itself, which has always been constrained by what Israel thinks they can get away with based on political conditions (mainly in the US, whose active military support, financial aid, and UNSC veto they want to maintain) and the available pretext’s they can hid atrocities behind.

There is a relationship.

I think we're talking past each other, which feels like the inevitable result whenever I try to engage in good faith on this topic with people that don't quite agree with me disproportionately more often than other topics. It feels like you'll have an answer for everything I could possibly say, which could mean that you're right, or it could mean you spend a lot more time than me having these conversations. It feels very tricky to ever criticize, even in small ways, any aspect of your movement, because there's always a reasonable, coherent reason that any critique should actually have been levelled at Israel, who's fault it actually is. It feels like there's absolutely nothing I could say to provoke you to listen, to hear my point, because you're already so confidently clear on 100% of all of this, and because your goal is to represent your movement's perspective, rather than to truly persuade and communicate. I think when you're (understandably) fervently convinced of your own righteousness, it's quite easy to shut down discussion and to experience it as successfully defending truth and justice.

Do you understand? I'm not, and at no point have I been, discussing or debating facts on the ground in Gaza. I'm making an effort to assume good faith. I am telling you about the experience of people that are "gettable" for your movement, people that largely agree that what's happening is abhorrent, but that are feeling alienated by the dogmatism, and you're telling me why dogmatism is correct. Iinot talking about what's correct, I'm talking about what's successfully persuasive.

Violations happened immediately[1]. Each phase was to be 42 days(6 weeks) not 3 months.

No, Israel & the US wanted a continuation via a modified version of phase 1 ceasefire rather than proceed to phase 2: securing exchange of Israeli captives but with the temporary cessation of military activities i.e., allowing them to resume.

Phase 2 as originally outlined & agreed would have been a commitment to a permanent cessation of military and hostile activities, withdrawal, and exchange of the remaining surviving Israeli & number of Palestinian captives[2]:

Announce restoration of a sustainable calm (cessation of military operations and hostilities permanently) and its commencement prior to the exchange of hostages and prisoners between the two sides – all remaining Israeli hostages who are living men (civilians and soldiers) in exchange for a number of prisoners in Israeli prisons and detention centers and the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza strip.

Moreover, Israel was supposed to send negotiators for implementation of phase 2 no later than the 16th day of phase 1(February 3rd) per the phase 1 agreement. Instead, Netanyahu met up with Trump, formulated their own agreement without any other mediators, and they delayed sending in negotiators until 2 days(February 27th) before phase 1 of the ceasefire was set to end with a "take it or else" approach.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/24/middleeast/gaza-israel-de... [2] https://archive.is/c82OT

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