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Comment by eviks | Hacker News Reader

> physical keys and they should be the same on every platform.

That's an easy no, precisely because

> have at least 20 keys on my desktop keyboard that I never use

Very common operations should be ergonomic, i.e. have a convenient location. Unless you mean to make all keyboards split ergonomic with a thumb cluster, so you'd have prime space for copy and paste, adding bad 21st and 22nd key far away will be worse than a more convenient modifier

Also, you forgot laptops where there is not enough real estate to even fit the full standard desktop keyboard

(multiple clipboards would be a great benefit, though)

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Status quo bias? First we have a large caps lock key and two alt keys. And we even have a ”Windows key” (probably soon an annoying AI key?). Many languages have additional keys, even on laptops (eg Swedish keyboards have å, ä and ö in addition to English ascii) so the real estate argument feels surmountable. Muscle memory and having to retrain is the real issue - you only want big changes like that at most once per decade or two.

> adding bad 21st and 22nd key far away will be worse than a more convenient modifier

Even if in the scroll lock/pause-break region it would help a lot for those who struggle with modifier keys. With this option you could keep Ctrl+C/V.

> Swedish keyboards have å, ä and ö in addition to English ascii

That counts against you because now you have even fewer keys to work with to add copy/paste, shouldn't that extra physical key be instead used for those extra useful letters?

> First we have a large caps lock key and two alt keys.

My "Status quo" is using them for other better things. And right alt is also currently use for those non-ascii Europeans, so that's not an easy win. Caps lock might be, the current default is a disgraceful waste. So that only leaves Paste

> Even if in the scroll lock/pause-break region

Again, you don't have it on laptops, that's the main source of space constraints, so now you don't have universal muscle memory experience.

> With this option you could keep Ctrl+C/V

Hm, yeah, I thought of a universal replacement.

Fair enough, good points. I still think it’s doable. But we’ll probably not see it for a long time if ever..

Here’s a (probably bad) idea that require no layout changes:

Repurpose the caps key into a ”clipboard key”: if you press it while you have something selected, it copies, otherwise it pastes. The key lights up (caps often have led) it means you have something in the clipboard. An expiry of X seconds is good for privacy anyway (copying a password and forgetting it’s in the clipboard). Cut is two keys: clipboard, delete. Paste-to-replace: delete, clipboard.

I’ll see myself out.

Had the same idea about repurposing a single key for both copy/paste, but then if it's done for the inexperienced users, this modality/overloading is also not great.

I myself sometimes press Ctrl+C twice because there is no other indication (and even with a led, I wouldn't see it since I'd look at the screen), and this misfires my other double Ctrl+C functionality, which at least isn't "destructive" like paste. For the passwords I think it's better to have dedicated clearing API (which I think already exists, if not used everywhere) rather than having a triggering expiring time on anything, that to mee is needlessly hostile, I don't want to ever worry about my copy of a paragraph expiring.

> while you have something selected, it copies

so no replace then?

Maybe use the right middle modifier for the paste? (it's an apps/menu key, is that used frequently enough? though again, some laptops only have 2 modifier on the right...)

> I myself sometimes press Ctrl+C twice

Yes but this would continue working since the clipboard button doesn’t change the selection. You’d just do multiple copy ops. It only changes to paste when nothing is selected.

> so no replace then?

Not in one keypress. You’d first press delete and then (since now nothing is selected), you press clipboard button to paste.

It’s the same number of button presses as Ctrl+V but without modifier keys.

> Maybe use the right middle modifier for the paste?

The modifiers are the main problem imo, because it’s both undiscoverable and evidently difficult for novice users.

> It only changes to paste when nothing is selected.

Ah, right, then this only breaks full-line copying where you don't need to select the line

> It’s the same number of button presses as Ctrl+V but without modifier keys.

true, but delete is in a bad position in standard layouts...

And yeah, modifiers aren't friendly

Another capslocky idea I had: tap to copy, hold to paste? (though also not very noob-friendly)

> That counts against you because now you have even fewer keys to work with to add copy/paste, shouldn't that extra physical key be instead used for those extra useful letters?

Those are not extra physical keys. Some buttons on the left of ENTER has the Å Ä Ö, that's all.

I'm currently on a Swedish TKL keyboard.

See https://typingdonewell.com/blog/what-is-a-nordic-layout-the-...

> Those are not extra physical keys

I know, that's why if you do add extra physical keys, they have to compete with the useful dacritics or the commas that those diacritics replaced, so it's harder to justify using those extra physical keys for copy/paste

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