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Comment by esperent | Hacker News Reader

> Figure 4: Median Gemini Apps text prompt emissions over time—broken down by Scope 2 MB emissions (top) and Scope 1+3 emissions (bottom). Over 12 months, we see that AI model efficiency efforts have led to a 47x reduction in the Scope 2 MB emissions per prompt, and 36x reduction in the Scope 1+3 emissions per user prompt—equivalent to a 44x reduction in total emissions per prompt.

Again, it's talking about "median Gemini" while being very careful not to name any specific numbers for any specific models.

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You're grouping those words wrong. As another commenter pointed out to you, which you ignored, it's median (Gemini Apps) not (median Gemini) Apps. Gemini Apps is a highly specific thing — with a legal definition even iirc — that does not include search, and encompasses a list of models you can actually see and know.

I didn't ignore it, I actually spent some time researching to find out what Google means by "Gemini Apps" (plural) and whether it includes search AI overview, and I can't get a clear answer anywhere.

Of course, Gemini App (singular) means the mobile app. But it seems that the term Gemini Apps (plural) is being used by Google to refer to any way in which users can access the Gemini models, and also they do clearly state that a version of Gemini isused to generate the search overviews.

So it still seems reasonably likely, until they confirm otherwise, that this median includes search overview.

"This section presents the environmental impact metrics for the Gemini Apps AI assistant" is this also not specific enough?

No, because unless they state otherwise we should assume that they consider search overview to be an AI assistant (they definitely believe this) and also that it's one of the Gemini Apps.

Look, there's not enough information to answer this within the paper. I'm not willing to give Google the benefit of the doubt on vague language, and you are. I'm assuming they're a huge basicappy evil corporation whose every publication is gone over and reworded by marketing to make them look good, and you're assuming... whatever.

That's fine by me, we disagree. Let's stop here.

What do you think the Gemini app means? It can only mean the consumer facing actually existing Gemini App that exposes 2 models.

They refer to Gemini Apps, plural. One of those apps is also called the Gemini App, singular.

That isn't what that means. Look at the paragraph above that where they explain.

This is the median model used to serve requests for a specific product surface. It's exactly analogous to upgrading the CPU in a computer over time

I can't copy text from that pdf on my phone, but the paragraph above says exactly what you'd expect: they're using a "median" value from a "typical user" across all Gemini models. While being very careful not to list the specific models which are used to calculate this median, because it almost certainly includes the tiny model used to show AI summaries on google.com, which would massively skew the median value. As someone above said, it's like adding 8 extra meals of a single lettuce leaf and then claiming you reduced the median caloric intake of your meals.

This doesn’t check out. It is not reasonable to interpret “Gemini app” as also including a functionality that is embedded in google searches.

Gemini app is a specific thing: the Gemini App that actually exists.

How can Gemini App also include their internal augmented functionality on search which itself is not an application?

If I, as a regular Google user ask in the search "is this search powered by Gemini?", the AI generated result is in the affirmative.

"Yes, this search is powered by a customized version of the Gemini model for its generative AI features."

Based on that, I'm not sure how it is reasonable to claim that Gemini App has a legal term that is exclusive of its use in search.

Amusingly, it refuses to answer if i ask "is this search powered by Gemini app?"

What? The paper clearly says "This section presents the environmental impact metrics for the Gemini Apps AI assistant". You are going through lots of hoops instead of just reading the paper.

The median does not move if the upper tail shifts, it only moves if the median moves.

The fact that they do not report the mean is concerning. The mean captures the entire distribution and could actually be used to calculate the expected value of energy used.

The median only tells you which point separates the upper half from the lower half, if you don't know anything else about the distribution you cannot use it for any kind of analysis.

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