Trump signs order to criminally charge those who burn US flag in protest
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
There is only what the John Birch Society and Heritage Foundation tell the Supreme Court to do.
We’re at the point of mobilizing military forces for civilian law enforcement on transparently fictitious formal rationales; the full embrace of authoritarianism in the US is out in the open.
The multiple civil suits that Trump is engaging in as president against pollsters and news organizations for saying things he doesn't like, the arrests + deportation of foreigners for protesting Israel, and the targeting of law firms who represent people opposing the administration don't already indicate this? Going after flag burning just further confirms that we're slowly but surely embracing authoritarianism.
These clearly can't both be true... ?
At any rate, for those who wish for this action to be legal, do you feel the same way about the flags of other countries? Why or why not?
I don't see anyone claiming that the law already provides for this punishment, every post on the existing law says this conflicts with it, explicitly or, in one case, implicitly. Are you perhaps misreading the “settled case law” post which does rely on the reader knowing the existing case law?
> These clearly can't both be true... ?
It is in conflict with existing Constitutional case law, but those claiming it is a nullity with no significance for that reason are nonetheless incorrect both because quite a lot of damage can be done before courts act and because there is no guarantee of how the current Supreme Court will act just because the existing case law is clear.
And, frankly, because the present administration, when it wants to punish without legal basis, doesn't just fold when the courts strike down what it is doing, but shifts theoretical basis and continues applying punishment.
Apparently.
Do I need to be respectful of enemy's flag?
I'm not usually the kind of person to speculate about hidden motives like this. Frankly I think this kind of move is usually too uncertain to make sense. It could always just be one of his frequent semi-random actions like renaming the Gulf of Mexico. If I assume it's a considered action, though, I can't come up with another explanation for it.
As a child I understood objects such as flags, books (Koran, Bible, Torah, Vedas, Buddhist Canons, SICP, etc.) could be used as symbols. Some people seem to believe that burning a flag is just as good as burning what it represents. I know that's not true and indeed is laughable. But if someone believes so and they act in a way (e.g., burn a flag) that is harmless and reduces their internal stresses, then that is good.
For example, if we could end all terrorism plots in the USA by letting people burn flags every week, it would be well worthwhile.
Also, believers are easy to manipulate: burn or piss on a beloved symbol and they can become mindlessly enraged and persuaded to do foolish things.
Trump's moves are largely symbolic:
- to lock in support from those who find burning the American flag to be unpatriotic (there's lots of them),
- to frighten those for whom burning the American flag is a sign of defiance or rebellion. This is a broad set of groups ranging from radical left-wingers to American Al-Queda and Intifada,
- to make it clear to everyone what he feels about the issue.
You know the best thing about all of these executive orders? It allows a future president to literally wipe out every single order with a single order nullifying them. He's making it rather simple to delete his entire legacy.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
Also as an American and a US Veteran of the armed forces I support the right to burn a flag and not be shot for it. If anything it shows the strength and resilience of a country to support dissent rather than fearing it. Governments built on a house of cards fear dissent. For those opposing flag burning, be happy your dissenters are self identifying. The bigger threats are often silent. If a person really hates a country they reside in then they should leave it as soon as possible and never return otherwise they are just throwing a tantrum or seeking attention. Have some comfort in knowing these people are likely just sheep that have been manipulated by online agent provocateurs to sow division as part of Fifth Generation Warfare (5GW) [3].
If people are lighting fires without a burn permit one can and should use a fire extinguisher to put out the fire. Fire safety starts with you.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration#United_States
[2] - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_warfare
No. You don't know what the symbol means to any other person than you. And there is no absolute meaning of a symbol.
You are one person in a world of billions, each with their own symbols and interpretations.
Burning a flag could be done for an infinite number of reasons. It could be a constructive ritual that ensures "purification", or "cleansing" or even "betterment" as in a metaphor with wrought iron wherein the heat and pounding shapes and strengthens the metal.
Some Chinese burn goods (and paper models of goods) to send them to their dead ancestors.
Symbolic behavior is incredibly complex.
I love an America that has free speech, including burning the flag. That America is dead, assassinated by the President.
I love an America that has rule of law, not rule by executive order. That America is dead, killed by Congressional incompetence and pettiness.
I love an America where the President has limits on his power. That America is dead, killed by judicial inaction.
I have the urge to burn a flag to say: This? This thing that you are turning the country into? This is not America.
Attributing "4D chess" to Trump's actions is tiresome.