Hacker News Reader

Comment by AnotherGoodName | Hacker News Reader

I can tell you that Australians travel for work to the USA on the ESTA visa wavier all the time. It specifically states on the form that it allows business travel. The idea that you can't do work trips to the US office on the visa waiver and that the only way to do this is with an extremely heavyweight working visa seems ridiculous.

It's not that the Koreans are the only one's doing this. It's that they were the first to hit by this very new interpretation of the law. Now that this interpretation is public i don't think anyone's going to the US for conferences/trade shows/general business trips for a few years.

View on HN

ESTA is not the equivalent of a visa. Under the visa waiver program you’re very restricted on the kind of work you can do and how you can be compensated for it. This work was very clearly not in compliance. For example like the B-1 visa, “business meetings” under ESTA refer to passive attendance only, and do not include active business operations or contributions.

Every law has a lot of need for some interpretation. In the past the ESTA Business visa waiver was the recommended way in for short term working trips to the us office. In the past no one really worried to much if they typed a line of code or sent a work email. It’s clearly not in the spirit of the law to enforce too strictly imho.

This new extremely strict interpretation means that the only safe way to travel to the USA for work is on a h1-b or similar heavyweight working visas.

This is fine if you wish to interpret it this strictly. There are of course consequences and as noted by many many non-US people above the ESTA business visa waiver is near worthless under such strict interpretation. Which means no more short term trips to the US office nor conferences or trade shows. The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.

> The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.

What is “these sorts of things” to you? To me building factories and installing equipment on the factory floor is a different class of work that is generally prohibited under the lighter options like ESTA or a B1 visa. Here is what B1 allows as an example:

Consulting with business associates

Traveling for a scientific, educational, professional or business convention, or a conference on specific dates

Settling an estate

Negotiating a contract

Participating in short-term training

Transiting through the United States: certain persons may transit the United States with a B-1 visa

Deadheading: certain air crewmen may enter the United States as deadhead crew with a B-1 visa

If you trust ice it was a flagrant violation. If you don’t trust ice there’s a possibility these were engineers and management doing consultation and training as allowed but were caught up in minor technicalities of new overly strict interpretations of what counts as work.

I think many non-US residents observing this would be on the side of not trusting ice and are now less willing to travel to the USA for a work trip on a visa waiver.

Installing equipment, is, in fact, explicitly called out as allowed under B-1 visa by the State Department: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/BusinessVisa%20Pu...

The Koreans had B1 visas.

It is claimed that their work has exceeded the limits of B1.

I suspect (hope?) this lights a fuze to the inevitable realization by the Billionaire Bros that sucking up to the current administration cannot make up for its sheer ineptitude. (to cite a meme I saw: "He bankrupted a casino!! That's like a license to print money!"). And, since we know the billionaires actually run America, maybe this is the harbinger of some changes to the present dynamic that's needed to arrest the ongoing demolition of the The American Way.

It's not even just heavy weight, you can't even be on a H1B visa unless you're employed and paid by an US employer. So what are you supposed to do? Be on the payroll of the US company for a week, pay US taxes etc?

Clearly the US wants people to apply for expensive visas when going to CES or defcon. I guarantee you people won't bother.

Which visas? If ESTA / B1 don't work, what other options are there that don't require actual employment in the US?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com