The Amazing iOS 6 Maps
theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com
theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com
So that makes me wonder what happened in contract negotiations with Google to force it out. Did Google flat-out say "No"? Seems unlikely. Was it just too expensive? That's possible, especially if these negotiations happened during the time Google massively raised the prices on its API (completely random speculation: maybe the price increase was only about Apple), so Apple had to invest elsewhere. Did Google just want control of their map data or want to give Android a massive competitive edge so they backed out? That seems unlikely, but may be answered if Google doesn't put out a map app for iOS.
Given the pain Apple is causing Google in its patent assault I don't doubt for a minute that the senior management at Google would have any regrets about 'losing' the Apple map business vs 'gaining' a poorly executed maps product on their premier devices.
I also don't expect Apple to approve any Google "maps" application any time soon either given how strategic it is for their mobile business.
My best guess is that Apple did the math and said "Well its going to suck rocks but we have to dominate this space, this moves our time table up but doesn't change what we need to do, ship what you have and put your best team on making it excellent."
EDIT: Reminds me of Intel's response to AMD's multi-core where Intel literally glued two separate CPU chips into the same package and shipped it as a 'multi-core' CPU. That sucked too but they had an answer in the market, and they invested in making that answer competitive over the next 3 years to get a more real multi-core out the door.
Soooo, their users don't matter? "Business strategy" is more important?
This is Apple?!
See: The In-App Purchase controversy with eBooks and other applications. For example, did demanding the removal of all links to Amazon.com from the Kindle app (because Amazon didn't want to hand their eBook margin to Apple by using Apple's IAP API) make anyone other than Apple better off?
I wouldn't be surprised if Cook decided next week that they might as well buy TomTom outright.
Yeah, it's not like Apple is sitting on a mountain of cash right now! Oh wait...
If nothing else, it's certainly possible that writing their own maps app and taking the initial PR/UX hit of "it's not as good as Google's yet" was the only reasonable option available to them.
(Not that we have any idea.)
Ask yourself, "How can Google make sooo much money on search advertising?" I mean seriously, rounded to the nearest billion they don't have any other businesses. The insight that explains it is that search advertising exploits the fact that the consumer is "looking" and they have what they are looking for "the query". When that signals a possible purchase intent "car safety reviews" for example, at that instant in time Google gives advertisers a way to put their message in front of the consumer's eyeballs when they are most receptive to that message. The effectiveness of a car dealership advertisement in a Harry Potter movie preview? Lots of eyeballs, few if any looking for a car. In a search query on cars? Lots of eyeballs, many if not most of which are looking for a car. This is what makes search advertising an insanely better advertising vehicle then pretty much any other form of advertisement.
Now lets look at maps on mobile devices. This has the same fundamental super power as search advertising, mobile maps are a search api. Many people don't put that together but when you are using your mobile device's maps you are seeking out directions, what you are looking for signals intent, and on that intent one can build a very profitable advertising platform. If I pull out my iPad and click 'coffee shops' on the maps search box I have signaled both where I am, and that I'm looking for a coffee shop. As a shop owner how much would you pay to have that person go to your shop? $0.50? $1? $2? How do you know your ad worked? Well there is an NFC payment, or a coupon you can offer up on the mobile device, or your local WiFi hotspot (remember that?) can tell you that the wifi mac address of the device that did the maps search, just walked into range of your hotspot.
Do you see it yet? Mobile Maps is as big a business as Google's search advertising business and its still un-plundered. Apple will do everything they can to 'dominate' this particular 'free to use' service.
[1] Best scene ever in "Charlie's War"
It's also why Apple has waited until now to address it. It's because they are not Google, this is not their core competency. It's a platform hole that has to filled, simple as that. Same as iCloud Mail.
The browser makers (Mozilla & Co) don't pay either if somebody opens the Google maps web site.
This is almost certainly Apple being pissed off about Android and continuing to untie themselves from Google.
It just isn't working out as well as they had planned.
Google give Maps for free to other providers as well, as long as you bundle search/gmail with it.
Apple decided to pick out and replace the only part that Google don't make money on in iOS, the part that had the most technical risk and the part that Android completely kick their ass on.
Google right now are asking why they should bother going to the trouble of producing a no-revenue Maps app for iOS when so many users suddenly discovered a greater appreciation for Android today.
Apple completely screwed up here. In more ways than one - and it was all because of a grudge.
I didn't calculate that, but I'm fairly certain it works. The only reason Google knew where my businesses were was because I told them. They kept that information walled up, so I guess I need to tell apple too now that there are millions of people seeing that database.
I haven't found where to add a POI, it may not be there, but marking wrong ones is easy.
Edit: Found it. Adding a location is under the "report a problem" under the curl up corner. Don't start with a new pin.
When each iPhone user reports one problem, and staff at Apple take a look at them all, determine whether each report is correct, and act on it, the entire POI problem will be solved.
Spatial adverts are a big thing now, with a big future. I would speculate that beyond the cost of licensing the maps or the contractual stuff is that Apple did not want to deliver to Google more advertisers that would further entrench Google Maps as the dominant player.
Apple need to be able to build their own POI database and knowledge of where all advertiser businesses are in order to get that revenue long-term.
Thus, Apple need control of the maps to control the method that advertisers get onto the map.
I think it's just strategic rather than contractual or short-term financial.
Google doesn't own their own POI database they license it from others and to date Apple hasn't approached these companies. So it isn't about the POI database.
It's more about the fact that Google was withholding data for Turn by Turn and 3D.
I think the figure was that Apple had $117bn or so IN CASH at the end of Q2. Whatever it was, money cannot have been the issue here. (Also, consider the cost of developing the new Maps.app in-house. Huge.)
... but the alternative here is alienating half their users.
They don't have to pay Google forever, they just have to pay them until they actually get their own mapping infrastructure into a usable state.
Nobody likes paying too much, but sometimes the alternative is far worse, and you're much better off just swallowing your pride and doing it.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/20/embark_garmin_add_...
So, I guess it's not that surprising that apple messed up something incredibly hard in their first attempt. I'm curious as to whether these issues are as widespread as they seem, or if they're more edge cases made to appear common by the internet. But the curiosity isn't enough to drive me to upgrade. I'm totally putting off that until I figure out a decent alternative app.
I think Apple made the right move. Even if Google is 10 years ahead in mapping, the experience you got on the iPhone was Google maps from 2004. So Apple is only 2 years behind 'iOS 5 Google Maps' and given the resources they have to throw at the problem it'll probably improve quicker than that.
I can only see 3D maps as a gimmick, so I can't bring myself to care too much that it's broken. I'm slightly surprised that feature shipped in that state, but meh.
What I care about: can it get me where I'm going? It's 2012 and I've still found nothing that can do that without occasional issues. This version of Maps hasn't been in my hands long enough to judge it properly. Considering the update was just released to the general public less than 48 hours ago, has anyone had time to judge it properly?
Worth noting: I've had the old Maps try to send me through concrete walls, or direct me 400 miles away looking for the nearest branch of a bank. My dedicated GPS unit has told me I've arrived at my destination… in the middle of a busy highway, and it too has asked me to turn through concrete barriers more than once. I've had both direct me to locations well off of where I was trying to go.
This is all from actual usage.
So if anyone knows of something that doesn't have these problems, I'd love to hear from you!
It's not just the quality of the maps that's an issue. It's also the quality of search. Google maps isn't perfect either but on top of having better map data is has better search so for example searching for "gauteir exhibit, sf" actually finds the De Young Museum in San Francisco even though I didn't name the museum nor did I spell the name correctly. IOS6 maps just said "no results"
Here are screenshots of an example situation I ran into yesterday, while trying to pick up my iPhone 5 from the UPS Customer Center:
Most errors seem to be that of string parsing - the biggest sin is not recognizing town/state portions of search strings consistently.
Ironic since I'd bet some of the best language parsing people are busy working on llvm and clang somewhere else on apple campus.
not that i'm aware of. i don't believe there to be a browser interface for their maps "solution". i could be wrong.
> are there other maps program available on the ios devices?
yes. google maps, or any other maps via the browser. sure, not the kind of integration one gets from an app. but there, nevertheless.
Furiousness is a skill. Tim Cook falls short here.
And SJ, while he was leading Apple, was always without fault?
If that's the case, how do you explain Ping? MobileMe? The G4 Cube?
Well, around tech circles, Apple and Google frequently get more free passes compared to Microsoft.
And that's kind of funny because Nokia just put out a comparison with Apple and Google maps to cash in on this hoopla.
http://conversations.nokia.com/2012/09/20/benchmarking-mobil...
Then Apple and Google "divorced" while the iPhone was exploding, Google basically stopped improving Maps on iOS (all features went to Android), and here we are today, with the best-selling smartphone falling 5 years behind. Not Apple's finest moment.
incorrect: maps was an apple app that use google maps service. So it was apple that stopped improving maps on Ios
The post focuses on the reach of their maps by showing lots of numbers in a comparison. They would better demonstrate their point with side by side pictures, like the ones from OP of this thread.
Personally, I wonder about the reach of this marketing angle. I take 2 international trips per year. I'm in the same city 330+ days/year. I don't care if the maps work in Columbia or South Africa. I just want it to work well where I live!
So do people in Columbia and South Africa. :)
I'm also in the same city for the vast majority of the year, but I already know how to get from home to work and back.
Microsoft used up their free passes almost 20 years ago now.
[No apple-hater, but postponing upgrading iOS indefinitely]
Google Maps has street names in both Thai and English, whereas Apple Maps only has Thai.
Edit: Just tested. This does not work for street names. Sorry.
There's definitely room for a lot of improvement …
If there were some perfectly reasonable explanation for why upgrading to the new version of iOS/Android/whatever caused text messaging to stop working reliably for a significant percentage of people, I expect we would see more or less the same reaction.
Of course, the fact that it sometimes generates utterly ridiculous visuals is no doubt helping the spread of the meme, but the underlying complaint here seems perfectly valid.
Agreed and I would add when you're buying a $199 "next-gen" phone, I'd expect things to work properly out of the box.
If it isn't ready, then don't release it.
Searching by address for me has been accurate (and at least a couple of the screenshots on the linked site are obviously playing on that by having street address in one window and business name in another).
In my part of the world (rural Western Australia) the route mapping (which I use Maps for far more than searching for a business name) is looking pretty good, even though we don't get turn by turn until next month apparently. Incidentally route mapping is something that Google has screwed up for me on more than one occasion as well.
The text messaging comparison is just ridiculous.
This is new development though and only on the Google Earth product for mobile, not in the maps app. Maps app for Android has those blocky untextured 3d buildings in select areas.
It's interesting how Google does it. They both contract and scan data in, but they also let you use SketchUp to submit data as well.
They seem to have tried out OSM in the photos app (with a horrible skin), but to have used purchased data for the street maps. Perhaps they felt it wasn't good enough in some locations they tested?
In my experience OSM is superior to Google maps in many locations (even in parts of central London), and it is of course continually improving.
It certainly will be better but I'm not holding my breath about Apple maps surpassing Google Maps any time soon. Google bought a Rasmussen brothers' company (what eventually became Google Maps) in 2004. That's eight years of product development, data collection, storage and refining -- all at Google's pace. Will Apple find some shortcut to compress this time in one-two year? Unlikely.
It's very easy to underestimate the amount of pure, repetitive effort required to build products of this sort and how hard it is to "disrupt" the industries with players like Google.
I don't think it will be easy for them to catch up (it would be absurd to say that they can have something better than Google Maps in such a short time).
What bothers me a lot, is that most people blame the data errors to the algorithms or ability of the team to create good software. You can have the best coders in the world, and if they have data that is not good, they can only algorithmically clean it so much.
Google has several vehicles that they drive around and collect all kinds of information themselves. Sure you can hire Navteq (or in Apple's case, TomTom aka TeleAtlas) to go around and do it for you. Guess what? When you license products from either of those companies that means you are relying on their editors. That means no fancy object recognition geotagged image that you can send to a support vector machine to flag an area as needed revision... the product you get from that licensing is the vector line with the attributes already attached to them. So that is what you work with.
Google has an entire army in India, using Google-made custom editing tools that do these things. Unless Apple builds the same, they will always be behind. Can Apple do it? Sure! They have the cash and the talent. Will they? It is up to them to decide if investing 400 million into their mapping infrastructure is worth it. I think it is.
At the same time, Apple has a carefully cultivated history of not shipping half-baked products. They famously worked on tablets for years before they built one that they were happy enough with to ship.
Now, for reasons that the end user surely does not care about, they have taken a product that was missing a key feature or two (navigation, street view) and replaced it with something that is much less reliable even for its fundamental task.
Yes, making a really good mapping application is hard, and requires many people on the ground, around the world. So either you need to make the commitment to do what it takes to deliver that app, or you should outsource the whole thing, and use Nokia Maps or Bing Maps or whatever. The third alternative -- doing it yourself and shipping it to end users before it's ready and without having done all the due diligence -- is likely to be embarrassing.
For instance, in the map of the Shibuya station area in [1], besides the general paucity of detail, note that only roads are considered worth mentioning, although the vast majority of people don't arrive by road. That may fly in Cupertino, but it certainly doesn't fly in Japan. This is not the middle of nowhere—it's one of the most popular places in the largest city in the world, and indeed, is iconic even in the U.S.
The impression one gets is that Apple is way out of its depth here, and given the importance of mapping for smartphone users, that seems a pretty major screwup.
[1] http://www.japanmobiletech.com/2012/09/ios-6-maps-fail-in-ja...
"Sources tell The Verge that Apple began work on the iOS 6 maps system nearly five years ago"
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3363914/wrong-turn-apple-i...
Wow. Just wow. Now we see how strategically brilliant (and utterly necessary) Android actually was.
Given the relative sizes of patent portfolios prior to Google's acquisition of Motorola Mobility, I wouldn't bet on Google should the IP wars shift to mapping...of course I wouldn't bet on Apple either.
http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/post/31923886066/are-yo...
There are a lot of problems with road map and point data (at least in the UK) which are nothing to do with the points you've raised above, though those are fair criticisms too - however the satellite data is the least of their worries, I'm sure they could buy in a better cleaned up set of satelite tiles if they're willing to spend enough money, and people expect some problems with that, but basic search and mapping is not as complete as it should be.
I love OSM and I use it every day - but I know what it does, what it is good for and what it is not meant to do.
Getting a list of towns for the entire world is easy. Solving the issues in the listed by the OP's tumbler requires data that OSM does not have.
The only time Apple helps open source is when they hire the most important people in really important projects, and then they graciously allow them to continue contributing. CUPS, LLVM, it's happened a couple times. They take good care of these guys, but I always feel like their contributions to the projects after Apple are being written with one eye watching over their shoulder to make sure they dont get sued for talking to the public about some super secret project.
I'd rather have seen more focus on getting the basics right, even if it meant they had to leave out (for example) satellite imagery in the first iteration. As it is they have broken satellite data, broken street mapping, and incomplete place names.
If they had chosen to back an open project like this they could have had a team of people worldwide fixing their maps for them, rather than trying to collate and correct thousands of bug reports from around the world and push them out in revisions. I wouldn't like to be on their mapping team over the next few months :)
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/3078987/apple-tomtom-opens...
http://gspa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.html
It's not clear exactly where they get all the data, and what is used where, but simple searches like Paddington Station are not working (Paddington does, but not Paddington Station), and I'm sure they're not using the OSM vector data (in the UK at least) as it differs and is less complete than OSM in rural areas for example.
It would be interesting to know just how they've put their datasets together and what they used from where, but it looks like they use tomtom map data in the UK (along with Yelp places, and perhaps Royal Mail addresses/postcodes).
It's not surprising that densely populated areas in Europe/UK are complete and accurate in OSM.
The main advantage would be that OSM has all the adding/editing/updating stuff down - that is a major operation and if Apple are trying to do it all themselves while merging inconsistent data from several sources and taking care of customer complaints they'll find themselves falling farther and farther behind people like Google who have devoted years and years of effort and a lot of money to this just to get where they are now.
Perhaps Apple considered OSM as a basis and decided it was just too limited in areas that were important to them - it would be fascinating to find out about their internal tools for this and where the data came from but I suppose we'll never know.
Google executives must be laughing very hard right now. If I was Google I'd avoid releasing a Google Maps application for at least a year and let the Android handset manufacturers ruthlessly exploit Android's superior maps.
This stuff gets so tiresome. Apple has been buying maps companies for years. Steve Jobs personally ran acquisitions at Apple. He decided which mapping companies to buy and when he did he probably had a good idea of how they would fit into the platform. Development of the new Maps app was surely underway when Jobs was still alive. What do you think happened? Jobs died and the executive team was like, "Alright everyone, we've got 6 months until the iOS 6 beta is out. Let's cancel our contract with Google and get this shit maps app in there pronto!"
The reality is that Apple has been dependent upon their biggest competitor for a strategically important smartphone feature. The Wall Street Journal reported[1] months ago that Google initially balked at letting Apple have access to Street View, and didn't allow Apple access to turn-by-turn data. If the issue was only quality, Apple could have turned to Bing or Yahoo. They didn't because owning this technology is a strategic necessity in the smartphone market as it stands today. Having features dictated by competitors is not an option.
It's true that the quality of the maps app isn't great. I get looney search results (even when tapping on their search suggestions) and it's extremely frustrating. But there is something to be said for getting it shipped and starting the process of refinement and improvement. It only becomes a strategic problem if the quality doesn't improve noticeably with time.
[1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FwvSLvr...
What's almost as tiresome as the now persistent refrain of "this wouldn't have happened if Steve was still alive" are claims to know what Steve would have actually done if he were still alive. Your second option is ridiculous on its face.
But they could just send in Forstall, he could easily do it and get away with it.
At the same time, I totally respect and get why Apple did this. I applaud competition with Google Maps (I'd love to see OSM become a success too).
The negative PR and reduction in the quality of the core experience might cause a reduction in sales or consumer opinion of Apple.
>> What do you think happened? Jobs died and the executive team was like, "Alright everyone, we've got 6 months until the iOS 6 beta is out. Let's cancel our contract with Google and get this shit maps app in there pronto!"
Your assertion that Apple had a choice between owning strategic maps technology or licensing from others is incorrect as they are not mutually exclusive.
I have to say I don't think it's a smart strategic move -- somebody has acted on a false dilemma and as a result reduced product quality. As you pointed out yourself, Apple could have gone to Microsoft or Yahoo to retain quality or they could have fought harder with Google to keep the contract for a while longer. It was not a bad strategic decision to buy maps companies and to put R&D into creating their own maps solution, however it is a bad decision to release Apple maps in this state.
Could be. Remember though that they also added at least one notable feature (turn-by-turn), so it's more like 1 step forward and 2 steps back rather than just 2 steps back.
Also remember that Apple took a pounding for the whole antennagate thing, to the point where Steve Jobs had to hold a news conference to get everyone to calm down. That was an issue that "regular people" knew about. (I was asked by people at a bar if the iPhone 4 I had at the time had reception issues, for example.) And yet, Apple sold a ton of iPhone 4s, and no long-term damage was done to the Apple or iPhone brand.
So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that this will cause long-term problems. However, it is important for Apple to improve their maps data quickly.
No, I'm sure SJ wanted to get way from Google. But I doubt he would have let Apple release iOS6 maps in the state they're in if he were still in control.
Maybe they should have kept it US only and still use the old Google one for outside the US, as that seems to really be where the quality issue is with the data.
What's missing in all of these conversations is that Apple's contract with Google for mapping ended this year. No one knows what really happened for Apple to make this change.
This isn't about "one bad app," it's about a core smartphone app that everybody uses. That's why so many people are complaining and the story is kicking off all over the place.
This is in many ways who moved my cheese. I don't care if Google or Apple (who made the google maps app pre ios6 anyway using google apis) is responsible for the old maps app not being on ios6. If google wants their app on the apple store they can submit it.
If apple denies it thats another matter and not worth arguing right now.
ios6 is so much better than 5 overall I think you're being somewhat overly dramatic about one app. Yes it feels rushed, but its likely this is a stopgap due to contractual problems.
And besides, these are just phones. People are so up in arms about this its getting to fever pitch levels. Why everyone expects perfection from the start is beyond me. Its a start, and not yet perfect for everyone. Either it gets better and all this complaining was just for pageviews (most likely), or people actually vote with their wallets and switch.
Until that switch happens, these arguments are getting tiresome and to be honest aren't very constructive.
I think it would have been worthwhile to keep the contract with Google (even if it's expensive) while investing in making a better Apple Maps app.
I find it very unlikely this move was prompted by Google. Honestly, it looks positively amateurish the way the change was implemented by Apple.
I will admit it will drive my next phone purchase: Maps are my #2 usage after mail, I very much depend on it to get around.
Take your pick. There are solutions that can be used to work around this issue and meet your needs.
More of a foothold? They already had virtually 100% (I'm exaggerating, but I can't think of anybody who used anything else for maps).
They don't have any incentive to make life easier for iPhone users. They have an incentive to remind iPhone users how they're really dependent on Google, not [just] Apple.
P.S. I must say It was really cool to see Cira Centre (The Amtrak Building) rendered in 3d. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cira_Centre
The satellite imagery is as bad as googles was, but more than six years ago.
It's just atrocious. OK, so you have some bad POI coordinates, that's bad but somewhat understandable. But how do you prefer your bad POI data to the correct coordinates that you're given? It boggles the mind.
It has several bugs (excluding maps and unfortunate wifi bug), which already have affected me and users around me. Some most notable include following.
* Sometimes iTunes update screen does not refresh,
* You can't disable vibration for notifications per application (i love my email in notification center, still - i do not need it to vibrate; in 5.1 it worked).
* Also, phone from time to time vibrates, though nothing has happened (no new notifications or alerts).
* Most annoying one is that they changed keyboard input, so you can't enter special characters (common in Latvian) by holding and swiping left/right. You have to swipe up and then left/right. Makes big deal, when typing.
I know it all will be fixed in 6.0.1, but still - there is visible decline in quality of provided software, which actually makes me very sad as a user.
Google Maps had a tendency to drop pins for locations on the wrong spot. That meant I always had to confirm the location with street view, 100% of the time.
Going to the wrong spot can be catastrophic in some instances (wrong or non existent hospital.) In others it can be really bad (missing a critical meeting, walking in during a wedding.) I don't need to give more examples.
Google giving not so great search results is one thing. I can look at the page and quickly tell that its wrong. When maps are wrong, it can add another 30 minutes between figuring out you went to the wrong spot and getting to the right one.
If Apple's management thinks its acceptable to roll out beta products on all of their users, I'll be moving to Android.
> If Apple's management thinks its acceptable to roll out
> beta products on all of their users, I'll be moving to
> Android.
I think his reasoning is that, if all the options are going to be beta-level products, he might as well use Android. I think Apple has always implicitly presented a deal where they tightly control their phone, but the experience is excellent. You don't care who makes the maps app because it "just works." If that's changing, users might be happier in an ecosystem where choice is more pervasive.
That, IMO, is absolutely the deal you make with Apple. More money, less hackability, and better experience.
If Apple starts crapping out stuff, there's no point in buying Apple.
Directions that are perfect for everyone, all of the time? Has that ever happened? I don't think so. I think it has always been a steadily improving mess. This may be a step backwards, but let's be realistic, here.
FWIW: I can see that turning into a lawsuit.
4. Content in the Products. (a) Map data, traffic, directions, and related Content are provided for planning purposes only. You may find that weather conditions, construction projects, closures, or other events may cause road conditions or directions to differ from the map results. You should exercise judgment in your use of this Content.
And Apple's iOS6 License agreement states[2]:
5. Services and Third Party Materials. (e) Neither Apple nor any of its content providers guarantees the availability, accuracy, completeness, reliability, or timeliness of stock information, location data or any other data displayed by any Services. [...] Location data provided by any Services, including the Apple Maps service, is provided for basic navigational and/or planning purposes only and is not intended to be relied upon in situations where precise location information is needed or where erroneous, inaccurate, time-delayed or incomplete location data may lead to death, personal injury, property or environmental damage. You agree that, the results you receive from the Maps service may vary from actual road or terrain conditions due to factors that can affect the accuracy of the Maps data, such as, but not limited to, weather, road and traffic conditions, and geopolitical events. For your safety when using the turn-by-turn navigation feature, always pay attention to posted road signs and current road conditions, and follow safe driving practices and traffic regulations.
There's basically no difference between the two. If the argument didn't arise when Google released their Maps product, or when MapQuest released their product, then there's no reason to be making the same argument against Apple for their maps product. The idea that someone will use Maps to get to a hospital and end up dying or becoming severely injured because they were told to take a left at Alberkerky and got lost is pretty weak. We might as well start arguing about how US Republicans are going to kill grandma and US Democrats are going to redistribute your wealth because that argument has more of a chance of actually affecting the lives of people, but is still as much of a emotionally charged fallacy as maps causing injury or death.
[1] https://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html [2] http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iOS6.pdf
1. There's more to contract law than reading the contract. 2. There is a huge difference: Google gets the placement right, Apple does not.
It would be one thing if a search for a hospital on iOS failed by returning "Not found." It's quite another if the search returns an abandoned warehouse 6 miles away.
Good luck convincing a jury that this isn't negligence, especially when Apple knew very well that their data was garbage.
Google's Android? As in Google, the inventor of the "perpetual beta"?
It's not like Apple "usually reverts in quality" either. This was a business decision, probably forced. They had to create something of their own for maps from what they could license and buy quickly.
Goes to show that you should not depend on your competitors for core technology. Which Apple always tries to avoid, but probably in 2007 (when the iPhone come out) the didn't think of Google as a competitor. They weren't in the phone business back then...
For Apple's set of rich customers in the U.S., yeah, maybe driving and walking are good enough. But "most of the people" is a huge overstatement.
The thing is – and what the apple fans are all afraid of (but few may admit) is that this isn't just a stumble, but rather, the first major indicator of what a post-Steve Jobs Apple product experience is like.
Every good ride comes to an end – it's just a question of when and how.
I'm not afraid of it because it's bullshit. Where do we lay the blame for the YouTube app then? Or the huge engineering problems with the original MacBook Air? When Steve Jobs tried to kill iTunes for Windows and the App Store, how was he looking out for the user experience? I have little doubt the much-derided contacts app for Mac and iPad was a direct order from SJ. His influence was a mixed bag.
The only people who deify Steve Jobs' every move in Apple like that are people that aren't actually fans or aren't actually paying attention. Steve Jobs had a great vision, but he made bad decisions and good ones. As long as Apple is still doing exponentially better this week than last week, and they are, then the naive ones in this equation are the ones placing any amount of weight on "post-Jobs Apple" yet. We aren't even close to that.
The first macbook air, despite engineering issues, was widely viewed as an amazing step forward for portable computing and it, echoing the iPhone, pushed the industry forward considerably.
Say what you will, it was still a major success and yet another feather in Job's cap, as viewed by the general public.
Don't think for a second that I'm saying Jobs was perfect in any way – but there is a general vision of Apple under his leadership as being the golden goose – Apple hasn't had a huge public fumble in the last decade that has been able to make its core customers question its ability to deliver ever increasingly good user experiences.
There have indeed been mistakes, but none of them have seemed to really injure the giant that is Apple. That generalized success has largely been credited to Jobs – with strong help from Cook and Ive. With Jobs' passing, it has been a real question as to whether Apple can keep that string of big successes and minor, if any, failures going.
What I'm suggesting is that if not fixed quickly, the maps experience downgrade will be viewed as a sign that post-Jobs Apple isn't the same and that may be dangerous for Apple.
Apple's bigger than anyone ever dreamed they'd be and they're the global standard bearer in smartphones. Any platform regression anywhere now affects millions of customers. The Mac is a piffle compared to iOS.
Edit: I will definitely agree that the fallout from this problem will be greater than any they've ever faced.
Their place data needs a lot of help. e.g. If you look for the nearest hospital from me it will take you to a new retirement community built on the site of an old hospital. It is easy to report the problem, now to see how long until it is fixed.
The only thing I noticed so far was that St. Lucia Golf Course was incorrectly labelled as Indooroopilly Golf Course (which is a few kilometres away). I reported it.
I'm actually fairly impressed with the number of businesses from Yelp - I wasn't aware that it was available in Australia, but it has all of even the most obscure little cafes and shops I've searched for around town.
One possibility is that the phone keeps track of the fact that "you drove 3 miles past where you were 'supposed' to stop, and then stopped at some other (specific) location."
As more and more people do that --- search the hospital, drive past it, and stop at the same specific location != the phone's predicted location --- then, statistically, we can infer that the "specific location" that everyone eventually stops at is, in fact, the location of the actual hospital.
Interestingly, this implies that the current mapping problems will eventually sort themselves out... after annoying a sufficient number of customers!
In reality Apple has been doing exactly this type of thing since iOS 4 was deployed[1], so unfortunately the privacy problems are apparently very easy to sidestep.
[1] http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+is+Tracking+its+iPhone+iPad+U...
What experience I've had with those data sources makes me unsurprised that there are misplaced businesses.
I doubt that data is being collected to help users with "more accurate maps", but probably "more accurate advertising".
I live in New York City. Sometimes Google doesn't put the street names on all the streets. I often have to scroll left or right or out to see what street it's on. Obviously you can't list the names on every street when it is zoomed out, but even when there aren't more than 4 or 5 streets on the map, the street names still don't appear. It's like they'd rather list local restaurants than street names. Has anyone else experienced this with Google maps?
I have never owned an Apple product. The main reason for this is related to class and/or culture and financial circumstances. My family was always very frugal and on the lower side of middle class.
And honestly I'm frugal and so when I buy devices I am focused on value and bought a laptop with a good graphics card and other features that I put Linux and Windows on. Also I am not comfortable around people so I have pretty much no friends. If I had more friends in web development I might have felt an overwhelming peer pressure to buy a Mac.
The point is that these decisions are not actually based on technical merit, not for me or for Apple fans, because that's not how humans make decisions. We need to be very careful to take a step back every now and again and make a conscious effort to correct trends towards a more rational basis.
The Apple ecosystem is generally more polished, that is true. However, its also very much closed compared to other systems like Google's and outdated in some ways. For example, Objective-C is a ridiculous over-complex relic and it is very embarrassing that so many people waste their time with it.
Its obvious that we need to focus our attention and money on more egalitarian and open businesses. And pretty soon, even the most open and inexpensive products and services are not going to be a good value as better knowledge and data sharing becomes more practical and popular.
The future is open, knowledge-based (some derivative of KR) operating systems where machine code isn't even allowed. The future is knowledge-based programming language and platform development and evolution. The future is ubiquitous open cross platform applications. The future is content-oriented peer to peer web knowledgebases and applications. The future is open source phones that you print out in 3d on your desk.
The future of technology is open, distributed, cohesive and yet decoupled, mature, substantive, and egalitarian. Apple is none of these things.
The iPhone is $200. You still can't get a tablet that matches the iPad 3 for $500. Saying Apple is expensive is like making one button mice jokes.
Value is a product of usefulness and longevity, plus resale value. It's ridiculous to proclaim that Apple products aren't high on value--I still use my 2007 MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion. It works out to well under a dollar a day and I didn't have to make any compromises in the process.
>The future is open source phones that you print out in 3d on your desk.
The future is also a Star Trek replicator, and just as relevant to the discussion.
>Apple is none of these things.
Because talented people want to be paid for their efforts, and I'm fine paying people for doing great work?
The cheapest new iPhone on sale (the iPhone 4) is $450. If you think it costs less, that's because you have let Apple and the carriers fool you.
The cheapest Android, meanwhile, is less than $100. Even better, you can even get a new Galaxy Nexus for $100 less than the cheapest new iPhone.
If I get a S3 or an iPhone 5 via AT&T, the cost will be the same over 2 years.
So what you're really saying is, if I get an iPhone on contract, I'm getting more hardware for my dollar?
Second, I'm saying that the true cost of an iPhone is usually greater than they true cost of the typical Android phone they're matched up against. In AT&T's case the apparent cost of ownership looks the same because they pay larger subsidies to Apple than they pay to Android OEMs. This works differently on other carriers (especially prepaid and overseas carriers) where the headline cost-of-ownership changes depending on the phone you buy.
Third, I'm saying you end up paying the true cost of your phone one way or another regardless of what the headline prices look like. In AT&T's case, I'd say they recoup the larger subsidy with things like stricter unlocking policies and changing app restrictions (e.g. FaceTime, tethering, ...).
Fourth, I'm very much not saying you get more hardware for your dollar by buying an iPhone. From what I recall of the estimated component costs, I think the hardware costs are roughly equivalent between competing phones (and if you insisted on picking a "bang for the buck" winner, you'd end up on the Android side most of the time). Apple's high margins and profits come from somewhere, after all.
Americans deserve what they get, good and hard.
I wonder if they will put in a map editor in their next version to crowd source fixes or at least bug reports.
When you click somewhere, one of the options you get is “Report a Problem” which lets you say that something is missing or indicate where a point of interest _should_ be by placing a pin.
"Brighton, UK", Satellite - a major UK city is so blurry you can't see streets.
"Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands" - ends up in the middle of the sea, and no roads on the islands at all.
"Colchester" - satellite shows clouds, in B&W
"Senkaku Islands" - compare satellite with standard to see duplicates of these disputed islands.
"Puno,Peru"- in lake Titicaca
etc.
They probably had to rush this out, but it's really not ready for widespread use in some areas; they'd have done better to cut back the features and massively extend their testing (or use a crowd-sourced alternative). Given how extensively this is used in iOS, both by apps using Mapkit and by customers every day round the world, it's vital that is it correct, and getting it wrong in such obvious ways is a massive strategic error on Apple's part.
We can only hope they're aggressively removing dead POIs and adding new ones. If it has been a week and nothing has changed for anyone, I would start to worry.
Nice work Apple - that's going to save me a few hundred dollars!
Even Amazon(that Gruber sneered for making far less money than Apple [1]) managed to license Nokia maps and wrapped a nice API around it, and you think the iPhone buyers have a responsibility to work on making Apple maps better after paying for Apple's high margins so that Apple can make even more money on selling "premium" phones? Give me a break.
[1] http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/07/27/amzn-profit-corr...
Looks like AAPL tested it in Cupertino and worked well. Thought it will work well in rest of the world too. Classic mistake?
I'm sure apple maps will get better, but seeing as they're not a search engine, I don't think they'll ever get quite as good at finding by location names.
While Google have made mapping look easy for a long time now, it quite clearly isn't as easy as Apple thought it was. If Jobs were still alive, maps would never have been released in the state that it currently is. Seems like Apple rushed the release of maps, I wonder what the real agenda for moving away from Google maps in the first place was here? It quite clearly wasn't because Apple had a superior maps offering than Google could offer.
Way to force us iPhone users to use an inferior mapping product. Luckily Google have submitted a maps application to the maps store, but it'll probably get rejected for competing with the iPhone maps application.
People seem to think "amazing" == "cool". Not so! It just means astonishing or surprising. Which makes the word so much more interesting to use. "We charge $9 for a bottle of Corona." "That's amazing!"*
So the iOS 6 maps really truly are amazing :)
*True story
Apple probably decided that having core phone functionality in the hands of a competitor wasn't such a good idea. Also Apple users were helping the competition with all the information they were uploading about geographic data.
When the original iphone shipped with google maps (and the Google CEO on hand), Apple and Google were partners, now not so much.
Unless you believe the Google fanboys, who think Google should exploit this to drive Android sales.
In the end it's better than the previous situation for iPhone users, because instead of a stagnant mapping application that wasn't updated for years for political reasons, we'll have competition now - as long as Apple is willing to accept Google Maps on their App Store, which I think they would, since there are many already (even a TomTom one).
The web based google map app is decent.
Google+ is a native app however, so I think they'll head that way eventually.
Sure, there's a cohort of iPhone users at the margin who may now choose Android over this issue (and we're hearing from some of them in this thread). But there's no leverage Google can apply with Maps that will significantly diminish the growing bulk of tens of millions of iPhone users. And Google surely wants that vast army of iPhone users to be engaged users of Google properties, including Maps and related features. Google Maps on iPhone is a net win for Google, and does nothing to diminish Android, where Maps will always be one step ahead and better integrated.
Of course Apple may have something to say about Google Maps for iOS 6...
You could even go as far as saying that mobile maps was the most important reason to create android.
[1] http://searchengineland.com/irish-politician-calls-apples-ne...
What were the PM, team manager, technical architect, developers and QA doing !!! Didn't they observe this !!!
Is this a deliberate product release ???
It does retroactively make the case for handling these things in-house, especially when the partner is a competitor. After years of giving Google valuable data to the point where it becomes a major competitive advantage, google presumably says "go to hell."
What I will say is that Google for the longest time did not locate properly my home or my store in the middle of downtown San Francisco and Apple's maps have them correct on Day 1.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mantx26oqv1rhptwbo1_1280.p...
I think it's brilliant. What's the best way to get people talking about their new map feature?
Release a map product that is inferior to Google maps then push a major update.
Everyone will be surprise how good iOS 6 map will be in a few weeks.
There's a new huge undertaking of making a modern, competitive "Maps" product. Who'd have thought that when the first version ever is released, its data is not as accurate as a seven-year-old competitor's?
This is fucking ridiculous. Let's see how long it takes for Google to replace everything it has with vector graphics. You know, to get even with the iOS 6 Maps. Who's the incumbent in two years?
1/100 of the cost of an Apple device.
Thinner.
Lighter.
Faster.
Powered by clean, green energy.
No Chinese workers exploited.
"iOS 6, Navigate Differently"
[At least I find it amusing]
Unless you've got inside information we have no idea who dumped who, all we know is the contract expired and it wasn't renewed. Google might have applied financial pressure, Apple might have thrown their toys out of the pram. It's unknown.
I do believe that dumping Google was a strategic decision and I'm perfectly O.K. with that. The world is full of products that are shaped more with business decisions that technical ones. What remains to be seen however is how quickly they will address the shortcomings of their map data.
Riiiight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
EDIT - People are downvoting without reading it entirely. I have mentioned I CANNOT ACCESS THE ARTICLE. So the only truth available to me is the Post here.