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Comment by roncesvalles | Hacker News Reader

The problem is this: if you finally just accept yourself for who you are (because that's basically what love means), do you then stop growing?

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> if you finally just accept yourself for who you are (because that's basically what love means)

That's not a good definition of love. Counterexample: most parents love their children, and yet don't just accept them for who they are (at the moment), but try to change them for the better, by raising them. You can love yourself in the same way.

Not at all.

Growth, as we mean it, is a positive thing. It isn't a value statement that you are inferior as you are and only through growth will you have value and be acceptable.

Accepting (and loving) yourself for who you are is seeing that you have innate value with all else stripped away. It doesn't matter if you never grow, or in fact, if you decline (as we all do, if we live long enough). You see that you still have worth despite this. You have your lifetime of experiences, your hopes, your dreams, that which makes you who you are.

Growth is one of life's biggest joys. Depriving yourself would be a shame. When you have accepted yourself for who you are and then srive for growth you aren't saying, "Once I have achieved X, I'll be more worthy of acceptance and love". You are instead saying, "Let me explore the heights to which I can climb in this human experience". You might epicly fail, but that is alright, because you are fine with who you are. On the other hand, if you are insecure with who you are and don't love yourself, then growth becomes a risky endeavor. Should you fail, it is further proof that you are an inferior person as you weren't able to live up to your ambitions.

I don’t think so.

You can accept yourself and be content/happy and still want to learn new skills, try new hobbies, and grow.

I feel like all the truly transformative growth, those periods when you sprint from a nobody to the cutting edge, or start from a blank sheet and build a work of genius the likes that humanity has never seen, the manic energy that drives this, it always comes from hate. A hate for the self (wanting to prove something to yourself) or a hate for others (wanting to prove something to others), (which may really be the same thing; you're trying to invalidate your self-criticism and the perceived criticism of others by proving that you're better at something than most anyone else in the world). Mentally healthy people become mailmen.

What you describe as "hate" can work much more efficient when coming from a somewhat loving competitiveness, I think.

Exactly. When people talk of "hatred" in such context, the nature of the feeling they describe has very little in common with the kind of feelings I've had at some points. If you think you're worth growing, and improving, and rebuilding, isn't "hate" way too strong of a word?

There's a bit of both. There' s a part of you that believes in yourself and wants to prove it, that's why you're even trying. But there's another part (or something external) that doubts your abilities. The "hatred" is from that part that believes you're capable to the part that believes you're incapable.

I think the better word here is contempt.

Bit of a corollary but I've just never been motivated by love. E.g. I don't feel driven to perform well because I love my teammates or love my company or love the world and want to do good by them. It's always a hatred-contempt of wanting to prove someone wrong or to prove that everyone else has been doing it wrong (whether on a team level or a world level). That's actually why I stopped being too chummy with my direct teammates. If you like someone too much, you lose the desire to brutally outshine them. Some part of you pulls you toward the group average so as not to become ostracized.

I don't think that a genuine love for humanity will give you the energy to do good for humanity. It must come from hatred-contempt, there is no other way. "Let me show you fucking animals...". It will never come from "I love you all so much let me build this for you."

1000% correct. the second you look in the mirror and you're happy with what you see, baby, you just lost the battle.

You lost the battle of ambition, maybe, but I'd say you've won the battle of happiness.

I love this insight, but mailman might not be the best example if you recall the origins of the phrase, “going postal.”

I don’t think so.

You still grow but in the direction and with the motivation you decided.

Quite the opposite, imho. Then again, people are different.

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