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Comment by macinjosh | Hacker News Reader

Beef is more nutrient efficient though and has better macros for human consumption. It has 4 times more protein, less fat, and no carbs. Seems to me at least Americans could do well to eat more beef and less products created from processed almonds mixed with refined vegetable oils and sugar.

Beef and milk are harvested ready to eat. Vegan substitutes are all highly processed. Processed food consumption is associated with greater cancer and diabetes risk.

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> It has 4 times more protein, less fat, and no carbs

Compared to an almond? Who the fuck eats almond steaks? It's a nonsensical comparison. If you want less fat and more protein per calorie, chicken beats beef. Chicken also has a lower water and carbon footprint.

> Vegan substitutes are all highly processed

Beans aren't "highly processed". Learn to cook and you'll understand that there are options besides processed food for vegetarians and vegans.

Factory-farmed beef is the worst source of pollution in the food industry. We definitely need less of that.

"Factory-farmed beef" doesn't even exist. All cows get raised in fields for their first 12-18 months. The ""factory-farming"" is just a feed lot they get taken to for 3-6 months to eat grain before slaughter.

If you want to talk about pigs or chickens, that's an entirely different story. Those do get raised full life cycle in factory-like industrial facilities. But those aren't cows.

You're going to have to cite strong sources or else this is either heavy cope or straight-up denial.

It is inconceivable that American's consume as much beef as they do, yet production has been able to scale without resorting to factory-farming. Every other commodity food is factory farmed. It's asinine to think beef is immune to that.

Bro, get out of the city or just look at a map, America is absolutely enormous. There is no shortage of land to let cows graze on. Feedlots for cattle aren't even necessary at all, they're only used to increase profit.

What's really asinine is that you have such strong opinions about a subject you know nothing about and demand that other people do research for you.

Cope harder, bro. Show me sources. Cattle is a massive industry and it should not be hard to find sources proving me wrong. Calves live on pasture for the first few months, but are then transferred to backgrounding farms, that are technically still pastures, but are fed a highly supplemented diet and have less room to roam. STFU about me not knowing what I'm talking about.

Feedlots are absolutely necessary at the levels that American's consume beef. It might look like there isn't a shortage of pasture for cows, but the truth is there is not enough land to transition to 100% grass-fed with American's level of consumption. [1]

[1] https://grazingfacts.com/land-use

> Calves live on pasture for the first few months, but are then transferred to backgrounding farms, that are technically still pastures, but are fed a highly supplemented diet and have less room to roam

Glad to see you finally looked it up and saw that I was right. Your attempt to save face is amusing though. From "factory farmed" to "the pastures are a bit small" is funny.

And no, feed lots aren't necessary. They make beef cheaper by making cows bigger, therefore making the industry more profitable, but if you did away with them Americans would still be eating enough beef to make urban vegan weenies seethe.

You've never heard of free-range chickens?

I agree pigs are raised in abominable conditions.

Not all pigs and chickens are "factory farmed" but most are. And unlike cows, the term is relatively meaningful and descriptive when applied to the way those are raised. Bro heard about how pigs and chickens get raised in tiny cages never seeing the light of day then assumed that's how it works for cows too, which he now realizes isn't the case because I shamed him into looking it up.

Pork and chicken have better feed conversion ratios and water consumption

ok!

Cattle water consumption should be meaningless. If a cow is drinking water from a surface water source and breathing/sweating/peeing it out in a pasture, that's the same process that would be happening if humans didn't exist.

It isn't meaningless due to industrial farming. Chickens and pigs are even more likely to be industrially farmed than cattle are.

If we lowered our meat consumption by about 90% then we wouldn't need to industrially farm meat and the 10% would be much more ecologically justifiable.

Then the problem is that the soy we've replaced our meat with is industrially farmed...

The problem is the assumption that cows (and other similarly intensive animals) would exist in the same quantity. You'd expect something like 5x less cow-like biomass without people intervening.

If humans didn't farm them there'd be far fewer cows alive and drinking water.

And far more bison. Not the same, but similar.

I highly recommend you read up on the actual research of what you're talking about. It points to the exact opposite of basically every sentence you wrote

Not all processed foods are created equal. Almost all of the elevated health risk from processed foods comes from processed meats and sugary drinks. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/well/eat/ultraprocessed-f... Whole grain breads are ultra-processed, and I don't think many are arguing against those. Beef has absolutely devastating effects on human health including elevated cancer risk, diabetes risk, dramatically higher incidences of heart disease (the greatest killer of Americans). Plant-based substitutes are scientifically shown to lead to better outcomes. Better yet, soy based whole foods are excellent for human health, contrary to the bro-science talking points. Turns out, beans are good for you! https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/the-bottom-line-on-ultra-proce... https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/health-benefits-soy

This book is science, front to back, cementing the idea that animal products are not ideal for human health. https://www.amazon.com/Food-Revolution-Your-Diet-World/dp/16...

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