<retracted> According to some calculations, it should in principle be possible to colonize the entire observable universe in less than a hundred million years. It's much too fast for the expansion to affect except marginally.</retracted>
The relative jump in difficulty from interstellar to intergalactic is much smaller than from interplanetary to interstellar.
Anyway, as others said, mere intragalactic (and intra-Local Group) travel is not affected by expansion in any way whatsoever.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00945..., PDF at https://www.aleph.se/papers/Spamming%20the%20universe.pdf
The observable universe is ~93B LY - unless you're assuming FTL (and MUCH faster than light), I don't see how that's possible?
To an observer back home you'd look like you're travelling at merely extremely close to the speed of light, but to you the journey would take a second.
Sure, but the rest of the universe will keep on changing. In 90 billion years it’s going to be a very old universe. Galaxies will become consolidated and isolated, fewer young stars will be born. Only the dim light of red dwarf stars will shine among a graveyard of dead stars.
Tau-Zero by Poul Anderson explores this, BTW. It's a great little sci fi novel about a spaceship doomed to accelerate at 1G indefinitely.
It is significant from a colonisation PoV. With sufficient acceleration capability and the ability to survive travelling through the interstellar medium at extreme velocity (rather than getting vaporised by a mote of dust), a single generation of humans could in theory colonise the whole galaxy within their own lifespans. Indeed, some of them could even come back together and meet again after visiting those distant worlds, on an Earth many millions of years older, if their worldlines end up with similar proper times.
Interesting way to put it... This doesn't seem that accurate. With sufficiently advanced technology, many of which we already possess, we could expect to propel a minute spacecraft to a considerable fraction of the speed of light, and reach nearby stars possibly within the end of the century. Reaching the other end of the galaxy is a massive undertaking. It's a logarithmic scale at every step of the way.
Pluto is about 38 AU from Earth. Proxima Centauri is about 6.3 × 10^4 AU away (or about 4.24 ly), and that's roughly a 2 × 10^3 multiplication. The Milky Way is about 50000 ly in radius, and the Andromeda Galaxy is about 3 × 10^6 ly away. Going from interplanetary distances to interstellar, and thence to intergalactic, involves at least a 10^5 factor (give or take) at each step.
On the other hand who knows with zero samples how stable societies are thousands of years beyond our present level of development.
ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT ANDROMEDA
The idea that, given a million years of further technological development, intergalactic travel might actually be feasible, isn’t really that implausible. Far from certain, but far from implausible either.
And that’s the thing-a million years is a technological eternity, a rounding error in estimates of time to colonise the galaxy/the local group/the observable universe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsiolkovsky_rocket_equation
The rocket equation also underestimates any craft that gets over a fraction of C
Currently, we have no evidence that reactionless propulsion is physically possible and one existing would directly contradict the conservation of momentum.
"technological development" isn't a magic word or force of reality. "Technological development" is the pay off of immense engineering investment and discovering new phenomenon, but every axis you can possibly put effort into engineering and optimizing has a finite limit at some point, and there are finite new phenomenons to discover.
The entire past 100 and some years of technological development has been basically down to mastering the electromagnetic force. But, we've basically used up the novelty that was there, and there is no new second electromagnetic force to discover. In fact, the nuclear force was also discovered and tapped out relatively quickly.
A great example of this is the elements. All evidence points to the outcome that the elements we can build stuff out of right now are the only elements you will ever be able to build anything out of. All artificial elements, even ones that are relatively "stable", have half lifes that preclude building stuff out of them, and there is no evidence that it is possible to modulate the rate that an unstable atom decays. So no "exotic" elements that could magically power space ships or anything will exist.
Intergalactic travel of humans is implausible unless you get into pretty radical transhumanism, or assume it's possible to perfectly maintain a biological human forever somehow, including brain functionality.
Brain uploads are another thing that people don't seem to recognize are radically more difficult and close to impossible. "Scanning" a brain is treated as an engineering problem, but it might not be. Every sensor relies on a physical interaction, most of them based on electromagnetic energy. How do you make an electron or photon or something interact in a measurable way with a cell deep inside someone's brain without that particle interacting with all the identical matter in the way or cutting open and taking apart that brain? Well, thanks to the mastery of the electromagnetic force, we have MRIs which kind of do in fact do that. But even if we had a magic MRI machine for example with infinite resolution (yet another thing that has fundamental limits), that would only let you look at molecules with with hydrogen, so you wouldn't be able to survey, say, the ion content of brain cells directly. If you are not aware, ion gradients are fairly important in human cell behavior.
Nevermind that scanning and uploading someone's brain, if it were possible, does not transfer the original conscious experience to the computer. A new copy may go on in a digital world but you still die.
And nuclear physics is still a wide open frontier. We don't yet have fusion, and there's a lot we don't yet know about quark and gluon plasma and nuclear behavior on astrophysical scales. And if we're talking about technological possibilities against time scales of forever, there's lots of interesting electromagnetic possibilities in the context of superconductivity and metamaterials that we haven't yet exploited and I'm probably not even beginning to do justice to it in its totality as an open ended frontier full of fertile (e.g. vacuum polarization is a poorly understood frontier that might turn out to have interestingly exploitable properties).
You did a great job outlining some devastatingly serious physical limits but I think, again against the timeline of forever, you may be perhaps underselling the possibilities of important and newly exploitable properties of electromagnetism and the nuclear force being brought into application.
...what? That doesn't seem right, just from a really quick gut check it looks like the observable universe has a radius of 45.7 billion light years [0]. Even if the universe wasn't expanding nobody could get to everything any faster than that number of years right? Maybe you saw something that was talking about the local (Virgo) supercluster, which I think has a radius of around 55 million light years, so that sounds more like something that could be done on that timescale "in theory". But there are millions and millions of superclusters in the observable universe overall.
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> ...what? That doesn't seem right, just from a really quick gut check it looks like the observable universe has a radius of 45.7 billion light years [0].
I guess it depends on whose hundred million years you're talking about: the colonists' or those who stay home's. I don't know how to do the calculations, but it seems plausible that you could traverse the entire observable universe at near light-speed in 100 million years ship time.
At 0.995 c, the ship clock runs 10 x slower.
At 0.999 c, 22 x slower. Then if you push the turbo button to 0.9999 c, 71 x slower.
The fastest man-made object to date is the Parker Solar Probe, at 0.059 c.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00945...
I mean, is it
change = gravity
change = expansion - gravity
We see gravity overpowering expansion. Same way you can’t launch yourself into orbit by throwing lots of pennies at one a second.
Or is there no expansion within galaxies at all?
i.e. is dark energy or whatever that causes expansion only present in the absence of matter, or is it present everywhere regardless of matter, but because matter also has its own gravity the expansion is not visible/relevant?
Also note that there isn't any "container" to fill up. It could well be infinite. It's just that we will be forever limited to a finite subset, even in theory.
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/24...
"The third mission uses a three-stage sail for a roundtrip manned exploration of Eridani at 10.8 light years distance."
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.2281 https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20200001904/downloads/20...