Hacker News Reader

Comment by breve | Hacker News Reader

> I'm still not using Wayland.

Why?

Why would he? X11 works just fine. It's honestly tiring how much it feels like every project is trying to force people to use Wayland.

No one stop you to backport kde to x11. It's honestly tiring how the people force open source developer to support something.

It breaks all my shit, for bullshit condescending reasons. For instance I have a script that matches window titles to pipewire audio streams so I can change the volume per window without messing around in pavucontrol/etc. There's no cross platform way to do that with Wayland because ""security"" means it's supposedly dangerous for programs to read the title bars of other applications, even though the individual Wayland compositor apparently each have a proprietary way of doing this.

Those deliberately-missing features in Wayland would have been a good opportunity to instead provide an official API plus an official security/privacy framework. Pretending that the hard problems are out of scope was such a disappointing strategy.

It is mindblowing to me that so many people think that just ripping out functionality and completely eliminating certain legitimate usecases is "progress".

And that having fucktons of incompatible compositors because wayland, by design, does not want to standardize things they decided would be harmful to myself if I needed them is also a good path forward.

Meanwhile the very real problem of "developers can't write an application that targets wayland, is brushed under the carpet, and then the entire house it's in is also buried in sand. Devs can target gnome, kde or whatever. But they'd have to support them separately. And there are certain devs who explicitly say they will not be implementing wayland support because of these issues. But at least we have solved XEyes's security issues!

> It is mindblowing to me that so many people think that just ripping out functionality and completely eliminating certain legitimate usecases is "progress".

Google and Microsoft pioneered this a long time ago.

Maybe because so they can introduce it later as "new". /s

Apple did it a bit later too, once they refined the experience. Thit's why they are also the first. /s

Not GP but...

Last time I started a wayland plasma session it kept resetting my screen brightness to 100% every time they woke from sleep. The time before that I crashed the entire desktop, dropping me back to the terminal, when I tried to drag a hyperlink between windows.

Those might have been fixed and I might try wayland again next time I update and reboot.

I don't care about its supposed advantages.

Similar for me. Wayland ran super fast which was great. But konqueror refused to open. Then crashed when I opened discord. No thanks.

Fortunately XWindows never ever caused problems or crashes for anybody ever /s

It used to, yes, but once they stopped fixing it, it stopped crashing! I've not had a x11 crash in 12 years.

If I had to choose between something that does what I want it to and crashes occasionally and something that doesn't do what I want it to and crashes frequently, what do you think I'd choose?

Wayland reminds me very much of the Disk Utility application that shipped with Mac OS X El Capitan. The developers rewrote it because the original person who wrote it wasn't at Apple anymore and it ended up being pretty much useless due to massive amount of missing features.

Was that 1 year ago or 5?

>I don't care about its supposed advantages

Since it will be the only game in town soon, it's time to start caring - or people will also have to change DEs and other apps, which would be much more trouble than getting on with the program.

> Since it will be the only game in town soon,

thankfully this hasn't been a problem so far, hopefully the end of x11 is still about 20 years away, like fusion.

This year. The drag and drop was probably last year.

Also there's no kill switch so I don't have to update. I wonder how long I can hold plasma and qt without breaking some other package.

> I don't care about its supposed advantages

Are there any, though ? AFAIK it has mechanisms to stop spyware programs (Chrome, Firefox, etc.) communicating with each other.

Headless RDP

Reply on news.ycombinator.com