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Comment by constantcrying | Hacker News Reader

This is such an insane stance. The proposal of chat control is surveillance of most private communication.

Blaming Russia is such a tiresome stance. Russian propaganda is so bad and so hilariously ineffective that it penetrates only small bubbles inside political parties, even after years of propaganda.

Also the current German government includes the historically most notorious Russian shill party.

The laws are absolutely the issue and if you are tearing down democracy to "preserve democracy", you just see democracy as a useful propaganda tool, for the sake of your own power.

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It's not only Russia, it's also China and Iran. It's very easy today to control social media conversation by participating as both sides and creating hate. It's actually possible to remotely organize demonstrations, create entire movements from afar

If steering far off (based on Iran's MO in Israel for example) with a little bit of bitcoin and time you can hire someone to do anything for you in a foreign country. This includes graffiti, burning cars, moving weapons and finally assasinations.

Because democracies are so dependent on voters opinions, and organizations that have a vested interest in the failure of a state now have influence, this can be catastrophic (brexit, covid vaccines, race wars)

Can't say I support cracking down on free speech, but IMO that's exactly what we're going to see, especially in Europe where Defensive Democracy is already in place

>It's not only Russia, it's also China

Those have even worse reputations than Russia and even fewer and more fringe supporters. Iran shills are solely Iranian nationals or their descendants. China shills are some niche communists.

These are not people shilling for these countries, these are people in the west that are not aware they are being played for these agendas.

Usually the play is something a country like Russia has zero interest in apart for weakening the west, e.g. pizzagate.

For a recent example, that time when scottish independence accounts disappeared when Israel bombed Iran https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/dozens-of-pro-indy-accounts-...

And this mean I should allow the EU to surveil all my communications? That is a pretty bizarre argument.

No, if you will reread that was never my argument. What I was saying is that this is the real reason why speech is now curtailed and why this will get worse

But the reason is absurd. None of this propaganda is effective in any way, the influence is irrelevant.

I disagree, we are living in one of the most turmoiled eras worldwide since the 1940s, so something must be happening

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