Comment by epistasis | Hacker News Reader

Comment by epistasis | Hacker News Reader

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Why would you believe any numbers coming out of DOGE? The entire article is about their clear lies about their own numbers. Posting a number from the DOGE website and believing it is not rational behavior.

Further, there is nothing that will make the US poorer than ending the Fed or fiat money. The US has blown past all other economies in the world because of fiat money and its special status.

> revealed corruption in the NGO's.

No, it absolutely did not. DOGE revealed the corruption of DOGE. It's all political corruption, eliminating the regulators for Musk's empire, cover it up with lies about other things.

> Doge helped a lot of people come to that conclusion, so that's helpful.

The only thing that DOGE convinced people of is that Musk is a fraud. Nobody lost trust in the government because of anything Musk did, nobody thought "Oh I used to think that USAID was good, now I think it's bad!" Musk's popularity has hit rock-bottom, he has ruined some of the most valuable consumer brands in the world.

It's odd to see so many words that are directly contradicted by plain reality. One must be in a very very very deep information bubble to see your post

> It's all political corruption, eliminating the regulators for Musk's empire, cover it up with lies about other things.

I just don't see the world this way, and I don't think my being argumentative about it is healthy for either of us.

> deep information bubble

The same could be said for you. You've left very little room for nuance.

I am not a direct investor in any of his businesses, and my opinions are my own. Musk was and is the largest military contractor, bought and paid for. He's a genius marketer, autistic, and gets his hands dirty on projects technically. He's not an idiot and he is socially awkward. I believe whatever big projects Musk starts are at the urging and partly the direction of the US military.

It seems clear (to me) that Musk is crushing it in most of his businesses. It's clear (to me) that the on again, off again relationship he has with the Trump administration was just pro wrestling kayfabe. It is impossible for me to impute motives to Musk, he says pro-human things and he works (potentially) very anti-human projects. I am apprehensive about everything he has his paws in.

My worldview is to pursue truth above all else. If that results in arguments, fine, it's a price I'm willing to pay for honesty and reality!

If there was nuance, please provide it. I don't see any in your comment at all, but I dos see lots of generalizations and a very narrow take on the world and where wealth comes from.

I would love nothing more than to improve my world view through argumentation, but that requires providing facts rather than trafficking in the falsehoods of others, like those of DOGE.

> If there was nuance, please provide it.

I'm just not locked in good guy, bad guy mode. As I said, I'm apprehensive about what Musk does.

I think a lot of people think that Musk betrayed them and their politics and so everything he touches is automatically el diablo. The anti-woke Twitter thing was the last straw because it meant a hit against their moral superiority. I will just say that when lots of people thought he was a good guy, I was apprehensive about him then too.

> generalizations and a very narrow take on the world

Generalizations also means I can be open to new ideas, if you want to be charitable to me.

> I would love nothing more than to improve my world view through argumentation

I don't believe it is possible to change anyone's deep set ideas. I have come to the conclusion that trying to is hurtful/spiteful.

Musk being a "bad guy" or "good guy" has zero to do with my comment, that's not adding any nuance. Also, "betrayal" of views has noting to do with my comment.

I think you were reaching for the word "nuance" without even reading my comment for what it says and the claims within.

> I don't believe it is possible to change anyone's deep set ideas. I have come to the conclusion that trying to is hurtful/spiteful.

That is a deeply pernicious belief. People change their deeply held views all the time. I have mostly consistent values, but those values lead to changing my views quite often.

Anybody that doesn't change their views is not worth talking to on any matter. What's the point? If a person's views can't change they can't share anything true because the chances of happening across the right views from the start is zero, so there's practically zero that can be learned from the person. And there's no changing their views either!

Strong views, loosely held...

You are a rare breed then, good on you.

Here's something that might expand your view of the world. One of the agencies that saw major disruption was USAID. They don't just fund clean water for kids in Africa. They also fund regime change efforts worldwide. And these efforts have become social clubs for people who couldn't hack actual politics to meet and talk about how they are going to overthrow $DICTATOR. For years. Funded by the American taxpayer.

Here's an interview with one of the people who used to attend these dinners. He had to get a job as a plumber once the USAID funding dried up, and is happy about not having to lie anymore: https://meduza.io/amp/feature/2025/02/07/ya-ne-mogu-bolshe-y...

Use Google Translate. Meduza is heavily biased in favor of the EU, it is not a pro-US or Putin media outlet.

Now, this is just one guy who had to get a real job. Imagine how many others like him exist in the world. Now that USAID has been given a nice firm shake and a bunch of dead weight fell off - maybe funding can be focused on something new.

Without this kind of major disruption it would be impossible to effect this kind of change. Now think beyond USAID: could other departments have had just as many parasites? And remember: it's not just about saving money. It's also about sending the resources to a different place, and removing entrenched dead weight from power structures.

If this is the best you got, it's a huge fucking indictment of DOGE. I'm supposed to be happy about thousands of children starving to death because I'm only consuming Russian language propaganda and prefer dictators to children living?

If you read your comment with clear eyes I think you will find it as a huge indictment of Doge cutting USAID.

Loosely held, remember? No need to be so strident. The browbeating is a bit much, you should be more humble.

Regime change in the noble pursuit of upholding the status quo, that is to say, the rules-based liberal order - liberal democracy - is a muddy, murky, dirty business. Some see that dying system of control as rotten to the core.

I do. I see it as the same system waging optional wars kinetic and psychological home and abroad in the attempt to cling to power.

And more agree with me every day.

> The same could be said for you. You've left very little room for nuance.

That's because not every issue has room for nuance. There's no nuance that the sky is blue, or pigs cannot fly. That's just... that.

Musk is a conman and liar, proven so many times that, even if you choose to close your ears, that reality is undeniable. Obviously, we have to conclude that Doge was a scam. There's no other interpretation that makes any sense.

That's silly, your Musk sounds cartoonish. The world isn't so simple and humans are not one-dimensional.

I don't have any conclusions on Doge, and I won't settle for conspiracy theories. It's not obvious to me what the real goals were or are ongoing.

The goals were obvious, it was a money grab and an attempt to dodge accountability. Because that's 99% of what musk does and that's literally all doge did. It didn't save us any money.

Any other interpretation is just willfully stupid, unfortunately. We have a lot of track record to work with. Ignoring track record isn't being unbiased. It's exactly the opposite, actually.

It's not obvious and not a willfully stupid interpretation when Musk has been the largest defense contractor for years. There's more going on than your 1-dimensional bad guy narrative covers.

Doge did not save any money, but it did air dirty laundry, and maybe that was the point.

I think the most consequential revelation regarded the 14 magic money computers. Non-tech people don't have the imagination we have to fathom the infinite fraud and corruption this enables.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BDREZmpkIz8&t=346s

Plenty of people hate Musk and think he's a traitor to the cause. He took tremendous brand damage from Doge and supporting Trump. That's far more impactful than regs scams or tax dodges or whatever mo's you fantasize there.

i wouldn't consider his longtermism thinking as pro-human. instead its very inhumane and detached from humans

I share your concerns. He says pro-human things, mostly. What he actually works on probably has dreadful consequences.

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