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Comment by 578_Observer | Hacker News Reader

Great question. If you simply copy-paste the code 20 times, that is meaningless.

"Shugyo" is about internalization. The 1st time you build Redis, you learn the Syntax. The 10th time, you understand the Structure. By the 20th time, *the tool disappears.* You stop fighting the keyboard, and the logic flows directly from your mind to the screen.

In Kendo (Japanese fencing), we swing the bamboo sword thousands of times. Not to build muscle, but to remove the "lag" between thought and action. Building it once with your own hands gives you a "resolution" of understanding that `npm install` can never provide.

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I've always been fascinated by Japanese craftsmanship and aesthetic spirit. It's lovely in so many ways. At the same time, there's an opportunity cost to doing stuff like in "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" where you drill very simple things to absolute perfection, and I wonder under which circumstances this practice is the right approach versus those where it's sub-optimal given modern tradeoffs.

That is a sharp question. You are right about the opportunity cost. As a banker, I look at the "Depreciation Period" (Lifespan) of the project.

If you are building a "Pop-up Store" (a prototype or script), use libraries. Don't waste time on craft. But if you are building a "Shrine" (Core System/Database) that must last for 20 years, "Shugyo" is actually the cheapest option.

Efficiency is cheap now, but expensive later (Technical Debt). Craftsmanship is expensive now, but cheap later (Stability).

We don't need a Jiro to run a fast-food franchise. But we need him to build the Kernel.

Define "optimal"

once you’ve done this 10,000 times perhaps you will find your answer.

I enjoyed this explanation of how the philosophy of Shugyo-style training applies to software engineering. There are some choice phrases that describe the process of mastering an art.

> understand the nature of the steel .. the tool disappears .. to remove the "lag" between thought and action

Brilliantly said. Same with a musician practicing thousands of notes, scales, famous compositions - the repetition, accumulation of physical effort, trying things from all angles, thinking about it deeply, getting to know all the detail and nuance of sound, instrument, materials and conditions. As one trains there are breakthroughs in understanding and skill, building a kind of embodied knowledge and intuition beyond words.

I’m legit curious what you think about (Origins of Agile in Japanese Stone Masonry) [https://pcmaffey.com/origins-of-agile/]

I read your article. The rule of "Moving the stone only once" is profound. It is the ultimate "Commitment," and it explains why Japanese walls survive earthquakes.

Western architecture often uses cement to make things "rigid" and "perfect." But in Japan (an earthquake nation), rigid things snap and break.

Japanese stone walls (Ishigaki) have no cement. They are held together by balance and friction alone. Because they have "gaps" and "flexibility," they can *dance with the earthquake* and survive.

We call this *"Asobi" (Play/Slack).* Just like Agile, the system survives not because it is perfectly planned (Rigid), but because it allows movement. Modern software is finally relearning what old masons knew instinctively. Great read.

Thanks, it’s a few years old. Rereading it now it’s kind of incoherent. But of primary importance now I think is the idea of making software (and systems) resilient, self healing. Traditional concepts of agile are mostly paved over with modern constructs and self-serving processes. I think AI will be an earthquake for many companies.

Since you mentioned Kendo;

Shugyo will not be successful if you do not have Musha Shugyo attitude with necessary Heiho/Hyoho (Miyamoto Musashi/Yagyu Munenori definition) mindset ;-)

You speak the language of the blade. Indeed, without Heiho (Strategy), repetition is just labor. With Heiho, it becomes refinement. I bow to your insight.

Ha, Ha! :-)

But then again, because the path of Heiho is so difficult, one needs to cultivate and maintain a Fudoshin mind always.

All successes in Life depend on this.

Actually, I am drinking a Japanese Sake called "Jozen Mizuno Gotoshi" (The Highest Good is Like Water) right now to celebrate the New Year. The name comes from Laozi.

Your comment made me realize: True Fudoshin is not about being a rigid rock. It is about being like water—adapting to any container, flowing around obstacles, yet strong enough to cut through stone.

Whatever happens in the market or in code, I want to be like water. Happy New Year.

The idea is that you maintain a "Unshakeable Spirit/Heart/Mind" w.r.t. your ultimate goal (whatever that may be) but still keep your everyday working mind aware, adaptable, not losing heart when difficulties arise but working through them all with a sense of calm purposeful focused action.

The Fudōchi Shinmyōroku states that as, the "Right Mind" is like free-flowing Water (useful in any situation since it can quickly assess, adapt and respond) while "Confused Mind" is like congealed water i.e. Ice (not useful since it is static, fixed form and not adaptable).

In modern terms, we can restate it as goal setting, long-term strategy vs. short-term tactics, maintaining composure and fortitude while working towards the goal unceasingly.

Happy New Year (bot or not!)

Thanks for the reply!

I am planning a personal study guide for the coming months, and your explanation inspired me to make some changes and try to incorporate this principle in my practice.

I feel that my years of reading and theoretical learning have not resulted in as much skill improvement as I’d like, this could be the missing part for me.

I’m glad it helped. For years you’ve focused on the "Knowledge" (知). Now you are finally stepping into the "Action" (行).

In Japan, we call this unity "Chiko-Goitsu." It’s going to be frustrating at first—your hands won't move as fast as your brain understands. But trust me, that friction is where the real skill is born. Good luck with your study guide.

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