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Comment by bakies | Hacker News Reader

They pay into social security when they have a job just like anyone else.

If it's weak social safety net then why would the immigrants choose this country for financial benefit? You're contradicting yourself right in the next bullet point.

They came here for the American Dream, which is about finding a new life free from oppression against all odds. It's what this country is built on. There's nothing more patriotic than welcoming the oppressed with open arms and helping them build a new life. It's what happened when your ancestors came to this country.

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> They pay into social security when they have a job just like anyone else.

Really? None are paid under the table? Who pays their ER bills when they break their arm while performing illegal farm labor, for instance?

> If it's weak social safety net then why would the immigrants choose this country for financial benefit? You're contradicting yourself right in the next bullet point.

Because it's better than from wherever they came? These goals aren't incompatible. Jobs are reason enough, free shit is icing on the cake.

> They came here for the American Dream,

Breaking the law in the process, and pissing on everyone who bothered to obtain it legally.

> It's what happened when your ancestors came to this country.

My ancestors weren't given free shit upon arrival - you can have a welfare system or open borders, not both.

no citizens are paid under the table?

who pays bills of citizens w/o insurance that are rushed to the emergency room?

> My ancestors weren't given free shit upon arrival

you sure about that?

We're all the same people, stop hating.

> no citizens are paid under the table?

Proportionately far fewer, obviously? What? Are you going to honestly try and argue in good faith that per capita, people already breaking laws with no legal means to work are paying taxes at the same rate? Either way: it doesn't matter!

> who pays bills of citizens w/o insurance that are rushed to the emergency room?

Guess what? - and this might be a hard pill to swallow: we don't owe foreigners anything.

Your argument distills down to: "there are some citizen lawbreakers, too, so a few more shouldn't hurt!"

> you sure about that?

Social security among other things didn't exist, so, yeah, I am very sure about that.

> We're all the same people, stop hating.

Not wanting to finance unskilled lawbreakers at the expense of my own people is not "hate" - sorry!

> we don't owe foreigners anything

This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity.

> Proportionately far fewer, obviously

I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants.

> Not wanting to finance unskilled lawbreakers

capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree? what are you arguing?

yes, the argument is immigrants and citizens aren't different. we're all people

> This isn't true, it's a pillar of the USA to harbor refugees and welcome immigrants. It's our entire history. It's our entire identity.

All of these dreamy tales are from before the New Deal for a reason.

> I dont think so. There's a lot of people in this country, far more citizens than illegal immigrants.

The word "proportionately" means something: if you believe that the same percentage of illegal immigrants pay taxes as legal citizens, you are definitively wrong. Legal immigrants probably pay taxes at a higher rate (by systemic design), but there's simply no way this is true for border hoppers.

> capital punishment for every crime if you dont have a degree? what are you arguing?

Deportation is not capital punishment!

My point was "your people" are financing unskilled lawbreakers with or without immigrants. Also "your people" are immigrants.

> financing unskilled lawbreakers with or without immigrants

So why invite more?

> Also "your people" are immigrants

Stop conflating legal and illegal immigrants: this strategy doesn't work as well in writing.

dont act like you care about laws

> Deportation is not capital punishment!

And how well do deported people fair? Sometimes they'll be returned to dangerous situations they were fleeing, sometimes to impoverished areas, sometimes even to prisons. I'm guessing some do end up dead. Even for those who manage, some might never see family members again.

Legally, you're required to pay taxes even if you're getting underpaid. Many undocumented people use ITINs. Your whole argument is based on false assumptions.

Gosh golly gee, someone who decided to break the law to enter wouldn't possibly break other laws for their own benefit, would they!?

I don't care if "many" people do anything: if they are here without status, they should be removed post haste.

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