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Comment by bediger4000 | Hacker News Reader

When conservatives were busy freaking out about the slogan "defund the police", I thought a little bit about that slogan. Every interaction I, a white middle class Midwestern, have had with police has been either to my detriment (traffic tickets mostly) or had zero good effects. I've had bicycles and even a car stolen. The first thing out of the cop's mouth was "you're never going to see that again". What benefit do police (as an institution) supply? Witnessing traffic accidents so insurance companies can decide who pays seems to be the big one.

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Here is an example of what happens when there are no police, Montreal police strike:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray-Hill_riot

> What benefit do police (as an institution) supply

This is one of those bad topics to talk about but to me it seems obvious. If there were no laws to prevent people from stealing, killing each other, you wouldn't have society. Yes you have bicycles/car stolen but I would think it would be a lot worse. I don't agree with that ACAB saying but I think people who haven't lived in a bad place say that. But I also am aware of racism/stereotyping it's funny you mention being white as yeah it's worse for not being white.

>If there were no laws to prevent people from stealing, killing each other, you wouldn't have society.

Laws are even less capable of preventing these things than police!

What actually prevents these things is social homogenization, equality, and shared community goals and experiences.

Indeed. Comes to mind an expression from one of my professors, "laws are to keep honest people honest, just like doors; should someone not care about those, they can easily break them - most of the time without consequences". Because most criminals are not caught or investigated.

Remember the 'CHOP/CHAZ' [1] fiasco during the 'Summer of Love' in 2020 [2]? That is where you end up if there is no police. Instead of a Kumbayah around the campfire you get some warlord-like individual who proclaims himself Lord of the Domain and anyone who crosses him gets to find out why 'abolishing the police' was a bad idea.

Does this mean that the police is always right? No, of course not, that is one of the many things wrong with the 'Die Partei hat immer recht' (German for The party is always right, part of the lyrics of the national anthem of the German 'Democratic' Republic [3]) philosophy. Nobody is always right and any power is there to be abused by those willing and able to do so. That's why there is oversight of those in power which - admittedly - isn't always as effective as it should be.

[1] https://www.historylink.org/File/22870

[2] https://reasonabletv.com/podcast/chop_s_deadly_legacy__5_yea...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_IbCMOg9YA&t=18

I lived in the 'CHOP' during this time period and encountered no warlords nor any friction in going about my day to day business. There were a couple nights when police used teargas outside my house and I had to close all my windows.

The price of your stolen bike is order of magnitude lower than the amount of time / money the police force would spend tracking it.

It's supposed to be here for more serious matters.

Great - then they should simply write him a check to reimburse him, right?

nobody said "police will prevent all crime"

in theory it's "some crime, starting with the most important"

There's a valid argument that allowing petty crime to fester encourages people to grow into more serious crimes. I live in a small town and the police do have the resources to investigate stolen bikes, and stolen bikes happen, but it's rare enough that people often don't lock up their bikes when they're in the town center.

Granted, there's a rate of return issue here that the cities will struggle with, but for the small town forces, it's worth their time to keep petty crime down IMHO.

It was still a crime, right? If price tag is what matters, then the cops are just there to serve and protect the oligarchs. Which has been my experience, which leads me to ask why I'm paying taxes to have a security force for the wealthy.

they have limited time and ressources. imagine youre a cop you come on the morning and you have the choice between investigating: - a murder - a organized crime situation - a stolen bike (with basically 0 chance of finding them since they end up in africa in 24h anyway typically)

The parent said that the police has never helped him. You said that given the problems he has, the police should not help him, because it isn't worth money and effort. Notice that you are talking past him: he didn't say "they should have helped me", only "they didn't help me".

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