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Comment by petcat | Hacker News Reader

> Just buy a few Mac Studios and run them in-house

I fail to see the point of this when the system you've to decided to run "yourself" is entirely owned and dependent on another American company.

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I’m not anti American, that’s not the main point of my setup. The main point is I want to own it, not rent it. Apple doesn’t control my production setup after it’s in my hands. Macs from 10 years ago still work.

> Apple doesn’t control my production setup

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46252114

I imagine these Mac Minis aren't logged in to an Apple ID. Unlike Microsoft, Apple doesn't force you to connect your hardware to their cloud.

You can setup a Mac without an Apple ID. To be honest iCloud is garbage. Almost all Mac App Store apps are available without the App Store.

And I don't see an advantage to have an Apple ID setup if you want a Mac Mini Server. All things you might need are downloable through brew.

I remember having a garbge Apple id just to use xcode. Back when I was desperate enough to work from a company that only issued macbooks.

It has the standard property of ownership: nothing gets turned off without YOUR permission, or at minimum legal proceedings in the area where you are located.

I'm not aware of any standard of property ownership with regard to Mac OS, Windows or any other proprietary software. The end user is granted a license to use the software. That license can be revoked at any time for any reason.

Where is your all-European made computer, then?

On that subject, I'd be curious to see any computer that's not mostly made in Asia.

HP makes them, so does Dell. They cost a bit extra, but essentially the whole Federal government runs on nothing else.

The difference between EU and US is that it's possible to make all components in the US, using US equipment, and so some companies do because it commands a pretty decent premium. It's not even that hard since most components (e.g. reference motherboard designs) are still designed and actually built in the US. China still really mostly does what you might politely call "commercializes US tech". And let's not discuss too deeply if they correctly pay licensing for all the components they make, because nobody enjoys that discussion.

And yep, as you might expect, only Intel chips, no Nvidia cards ... and that's not the end of the limitations. The previous version had no USB-C monitor support, never mind one USB-C cable to multiple monitors, but last year intel really pushed a bit harder. But even this year, I'd hope you're not going to be trying to use these machines for gaming.

The EU can't even make a modern motherboard's USB port chip.

Oh and yes, there are cracks in the US version too. The phones used, for example, are iPhones. Radio designed in South Korea ...

> The difference between EU and US is that it's possible to make all components in the US, using US equipment

False. ASML is in the EU.

The most technologically critical component of ASML's EUV lithography machines (the EUV light source) is designed, developed, and manufactured in California by Cymer.

And another extremely critical piece of technology is the mirror from Zeiss, which is not manufactured in the US.

Yep, absolutely true. ASML is a critical technology provider that both the US and EU are dependent on each other to maintain.

And the US does not need ASML. Europe could use ASML, but doesn't.

The US doesn't need ASML.

Right, ASML is so replaceable that the US forces the Dutch government to put export controls on some of their machines.

There's no substitute in the world for the top tier machines ASML makes.

> forces the Dutch government to put export controls on some of their machines

That's because the critical EUV light source technology is developed in California by a US-based subsidiary of ASML. The US and EU have mutual interest in protecting the technology and machines. If export control agreements were not in place then ASML would have never been permitted to acquire Cymer. And if they are not enforced then the US would almost certainly require ASML to sell Cymer back to US ownership, TikTok-style.

Can you point to the models that are entirely made in the USA?

I’m having trouble searching for this - but all the top results seem to be SEO or AI slop, so perhaps I’m just not finding them.

I'm rather curious where in the US HP and Dell source, let's say, their displays?

And while many (but certainly not all) of the other components could be made in the US, it's expensive and capacity is limited. So even the likes of HP and Dell have most of it done in Asia. Even Intel chips generally pass through Asia for assembly and testing, and their modern CPU tiles are likely to include TSMC-fabricated components.

All this is to say: the US is not tech independent (unless ancient tech counts). No single country is.

Though if you're just trying to say that the EU is significantly more tech-dependent than the US then I agree of course.

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