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Comment by gwinkle | Hacker News Reader

Snowden is comparing two things that, in fact, are not alike. Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression. It might sound like clever rhetoric to people of a lower intellectual capacity, but these are fundamentally distinct concepts.

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Or he was not comparing those two things to say they are the same thing but rather making an analogy based on the common factor of people in the US often wanting legal protections for both speech and privacy to draw his point that one is giving up their rights by making the excuse about not wanting privacy which they would probably not do when it comes to speech.

Thinking comparisons of two similar things are always for the purpose of saying that they are the same thing is ridiculous, don’t you think? It might sound like clever reasoning to people of a mediocre intellectual capacity but it is not logically coherent.

> Surveillance gathers information, whereas censorship suppresses expression.

Surveillance suppresses expression through chilling effects.

It only chills when the watchers are hidden. See David Brin's The Transparent Society for an example of how sousveillence ought to work.

But how do we achieve such society?

With great difficulty? The watchers don't want to be watched. I know the solution but I don't know how to get there.

EDIT: IIRC Brin addressed this in his fictional treatment of the concept in the novel Earth

> It only chills when the watchers are hidden.

How does that even help? The concern is that you're deterred from e.g. admitting that you're a lesbian under your own name because your religious grandparents wouldn't approve, or advocating for school choice because your boss is married to a public school teacher, or criticizing the government.

Knowing that they're going to see it doesn't stop them from cutting you out of their will or putting you on toilet duty or playing "show me the man and I will show you the crime".

Those things happen right now. My concern is with government and powerful corporate watchers. Ubiquitous sousveillence ends that. It answers the question of "Who's watching the watchers." You'll be watching the watchers and heaven knows they need watching.

Think cops with always-on cameras, not grandma poking around beneath your mattress.

He's comparing two rights and how giving up one right (to privacy) because you think you have nothing to hide is like giving up your right to speech, because you have nothing to say (and therefore don't have to worry that someone in power might find it offensive).

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