Comment by nirvana | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nirvana | Hacker News Reader

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Edit to add this Disclosure: His opposition to me is he's an Apple hater and I'm not. That's the background behind him deciding to call me names. Of course, since he regularly characterizes me, he chooses to accuse me of characterizing others. I don't make personal insults, I make arguments. I feel the later are more powerful. He can't so he attacks me. Is this what you want on this site? Are you able to put aside your opinion about Apple, or do you hate me and upvote him simply because I'm not an Apple basher? Think about that.

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Thank you for providing a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Rather than address my arguments, you characterize me (simple personal attack) and pretend like it's my fault. This is typical blame the victim. Yeah, I'm "douchy" for not towing the party line.

In case anyone is fooled by your kind of personal attack and "smear the queer" mentality, the fact of the matter is, I have tested it.

And if you were being honest, you'd address the fact that I pointed out that I have tested it. I'll give another example.

I once made a comment that consisted of this, in its entirety: "Apple licensed the technologies that appeared in Mac OS from Xerox via a deal that gave Xerox pre-IPO Shares in Apple".

This simple, innocent, factual, and let's be honest "douchy", statement wsa in response to someone who said "Apple stole Mac OS from Xerox".

Of course, me pointing out this easily verifiable fact was downvoted to invisibility.

You attack me because you cannot be honest enough to admit that you are intolerant of people, like me, who think differently, no matter how well behaved we are. So you smear me, and in doing so, you show why Hacker News is not a place where fruitful discussion can be expected.

I characterize it as you being an asshole because that's how you write in every post I can remember your name attached to. I'm sorry that you don't like that. I'm sure there are some people who downvote you because they don't agree with you. I'm equally sure there are many more who do it because your style of writing is infuriating and not conducive to discussion.

Right now that post has 32 points, so apparently some folks think I have a point when I say it has nothing to do with what you say and how you say it. But I realize that that means nothing to you--once you have decided that people are out to get you, an observation like that just means that the people who vote are out to get you.

I once made a comment that consisted of this, in its entirety: "Apple licensed the technologies that appeared in Mac OS from Xerox via a deal that gave Xerox pre-IPO Shares in Apple".

This simple, innocent, factual, and let's be honest "douchy", statement wsa in response to someone who said "Apple stole Mac OS from Xerox".

Can you link me to the exact thread in which this happened? I'm interested in seeing it.

You attack me because you cannot be honest enough to admit that you are intolerant of people, like me, who think differently, no matter how well behaved we are.

I disagree, politely and even rather productively, on a fairly regular basis with many people. But I've noticed a consistent history of your posts being aggressive and unpleasant to read. I have noticed that you are, to use your own phrase, not "well behaved." And, as such, I am not surprised that many of your posts get downvotes.

A pursuit of "fruitful discussion" does not mean having to abide jerks.

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Edit to add this Disclosure: His opposition to me is he's an Apple hater and I'm not.

My opposition to you is because your behavior in this social forum is disruptive and unpleasant, not because of your beliefs. I quite literally do not care what you believe so long as you are pleasant to discuss with. In person I disengage from and avoid people who speak and act as you write, and my social circles tend to do likewise. On HN, the analogue to this is a downvote swarm.

(Also, as it happens I'm posting from my retina MBP, which is a brilliant piece of technology which I love very, very much, while I watch Netflix through the Mac mini attached to my TV. A true Apple hater, here.)

>"I characterize it as you being an asshole"

Because you cannot argue to the point, and in doing so, you prove my point.

But by admitting it, you lost the debate. You are the problem. There is no excuse for this.

I know if I returned this in kind, that I would be hellbanned.

This is why abusive people like you feel free to call others "asshole" or "douche". Because the moderators have your back.

So, not only are you the problem, but the moderators who censor those who think differently and let people who have nothing but name calling slide, are the problem.

>"Right now that post has 32 points"

Which proves my conclusion- a purely ad hominem post, that argues to the person, and includes calling me names, is well upvoted.

You're incapable of making a rational argument, so you egnage in name calling. Other people like to see me attacked for the "crime" of thinking differently, so they up vote you. Now this thread has you calling me names twice, at length, and derailing the possibility of productive discussion.

Frankly, I think its sad that your mind is so overrun by ideology that you're unable to think sufficiently to construct acounter argument, or your integrity is so low that you think "smearing the queer" and getting applauded for it is some sort of a victory.

And of course, blame the queer. He had it coming. For daring to be different. You are nothing more than a bigot. Unable to make an argument, so you call people names.

And you are what is ruining this site.

You have elected to write a great deal about your perceived injustices but have not provided the link to the apparently well-remembered post you have described; searching for the alleged exact text[1] with or without your username returns only this thread.

Once more, if it is as straightforward as you claim I will be more than happy to agree that your point has some validity, but I'd like to see proof rather than unfounded assertions (whereas I would say that my assertions have been pretty well demonstrated by your behavior in this thread).

[1] - http://goo.gl/ubWZ7

I love you all.

Did some searching on hnsearch, found this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3240050

This also seems to be related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2934973

Nice detective work. I'm not surprised to see both of those downvoted. The first reply to the second one you linked sums it up pretty well:

There's an unreasonable amount of emotionally charged language in your post. This is Hacker News, not "call people uninformed barely-computer literate consumers and haters because they don't share your viewpoint news". Make your arguments in a civil manner, please.

If you write with the assumption that people who disagree with you are dishonest, liars, haters, etc., it's going to leak into your writing unless you are a particularly gifted writer--your phrasing and word choice will betray it. And people don't much like it when your entire schtick involves emotionally charged accusations against them. Which is why I'm not surprised to see either of those downvoted.

People are good at tagging, and ignoring, jerks. There's a decent amount of indirect jerkdom in both of those posts. I can't be surprised they got nuked, but I doubt it'd be because he's writing in defense of Apple.

The problem with his posts is that he makes big claims and then fails to back them up with any references. For example from your second link:

>Xerox did not invent the GUI.

What?

Normally I'd never weigh in on a discussion like this but I'll make an exception since you post a lot here and I think you need a bit of friendly advice. I'm one of the oldtimers here, so I've seen how HN has progressed over the years, I also believe My comments are valued in this community since they consistently get upvoted. You can see my average on the leaderboard. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

I'm sorry to say, but eropple is right, you have a terrible attitude. It's obvious that you're a bright guy (or gal), and reading through your comments I'd say you definitely have something to contribute to HN. But the words often seem to come out the wrong way. You should think about that and try to do something about it, primarily for your own sake. The way the world works is that if you have a positive attitude, respect other people, take their arguments to heart and don't point fingers you'll be more successful and lead a happier life.

I'm guessing you're not as old as me, so take this as friendly advice from an old man that has seen a lot of people and learnt a few things about how they work.

I'll look forward to seeing some great comments from you in the future.

I find I disagree with a lot of your opinions but do find many of them interesting. I haven't made of study of your posts so I can't say whether they _all_ bear the pattern that eropple describes but I'm sorry to say that many of them do. Your first post in this thread does, as eropple pointed out.

I do think there is a lot of bad downvoting and that there are certain demographics (were you expecting a flat distribution?) which results in the suppression of certain types of opinion to some extent. You are correct there. But this doesn't help:

"haters going to hate, and leftists hate private property and fandroids hate apple."

If you take an offensive position right at the top of the thread, how do you expect people to respond?

By your terms, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is a story about blaming the victim.

Oh, an insult! How original! And blame the victim for pointing out that you're blaming the victim. What a clever retort!

My argument that the site was overrun with this kind of stuff is only supported by you continuing to produce it.

So, please do.

Let me guess, it's only ever other people who are screwups.

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