Is it a pint?
isitapint.com
isitapint.com
One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.
Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer.
This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure perhaps not.
I hate to be pedantic but pint being volumetric, you're still getting a pint, independent of density. Also - a nitrogen head doesn't dissipate, so you never get a gap.
I'm now curious though whether a nitrogen head is less dense than a CO2 head...
In Spain they try to create the head by dumping the beer in the glass, Guinness style, and letting it excessively foam up. So it's half flat and half full.
True but a mlíko pour is a special request and usually cheaper.
The problem was that many people insisted on the glass being filled to the brim, because they felt they were being short changed. So it solved one problem but created another.
I'm wondering if this is due to the prevalence of cask ales vs bottle/keg conditioning. The former is relatively uncommon in Belgium and you want the head from the latter.
That said, oversized glassware (e.g. Duvel's tulip for aromatics) and/or fill lines are also used to accommodate the head while still not cheating the customer out of volume.
> not cheating the customer out of volume
I don't think it's cheating if its the norm. One would expect prices to be set appropriately for the average volume served (i.e. a full glass would be a bonus rather than the gap being a loss).
I do just find it odd, coming myself from the opposite culturally.
Belgium is also fanatical about matching the glass with the beer, and Europe has the very sensible pour line on glasses, so it is designed for a certain fill and filled to the design.
It's designed for experience, not volume.
No, us locals don't know them all either!
There's colloquialisms for a half: pot, or middy, mostly. Hobart will call a half pint a ten, because it's 10oz, but they also know what you're talking about when you ask for a pot or a half pint.
Then there's South Australia, which will serve you a pint at 425ml, a schooner at 285ml, no one there outside of specialty craft beer bars have any idea what a half pint is, and if you want a proper pint you need to ask for an imperial pint. I have never seen an 'imperial pint' advertised in Hobart - it's just called a pint there.
Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.
> Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.
I don't drink as much as I used to so this might be a little outdated, but in Perth "Pints" are 570ml. It was rare, but becoming less so, for some places to serve you a 470ml schooner when you ordered a pint. We avoided those places.
He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc.
There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.
> Also in the US (probably due to lack of training and the customer too embarrassed to complaining) tend not to fill it the brim (and so not even 16''). I've seen 2-3 inch heads and asked them to top it up. They look at me as if I've just insulted George Washington
Really, no self-respecting Canadian would drink beer out of anything except directly out of the bottle, can, or keg.
They think a big head means a good lager and every pint you get is 80% head.
EDIT/CORRECTION: Milk is sold in multiples of 568 mL, so while the quantities are pints, the measurement is metric.
What distinction do you intend to make by that? 1 pint is 568ml.
If you mean in labelling or something, no, they're marked 1/2/4 pints. Usually also with litre markings. You can also get metric sized bottles, i.e. on the supermarket shelf you'll often see one brand's 2 pint bottles next to another's slightly smaller 1l bottles.
The supermarket price labelling will be in £/litre, regardless of whether the bottle's pints or not, if that's what you mean?
Kilograms seem more and more common for human weight too though, largely driven by fitness apps & communities I think. I doubt children in school today are accustomed to stone; only pounds and ounces for birth weight perhaps, but even that is metric medically and converted for the parents' familiarity these days I believe.
Fraid not.
No medical professional in Blighty weighs people using imperial measurements. The only people who really use them are the elderly and (bizarrely) the type of crappy slimming magazine seen at supermarket chekouts...... The kind satirised by Viz as titled "Less Cake, More Exercise".
Not really. Old people might cook with funny old temperatures/measures and weigh themselves in stones, but it's fading out, contemporary cookbooks and gym culture are all metric. I've literally never seen a utility bill in anything other than metric (even if it's slightly weird metric like kWh or cubic metres of gas).
After this point, there was no where the whole world round where a pint was a pound.
(The US standardized on the wine gallon, so a US pint is and was 1.04 lbs.)
- 200ml "fluitje" (little flute)
- 250ml "pintje" (little pint), often sold in a "vaasje" (vase, a tapered beer glass). This is the typical beer measure: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintje "Het bestelde glas pils heeft doorgaans een inhoud van 25 cl"
They also sell standard bottled beer in 300ml and standard cans in 330ml: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standaardglas
I was not aware that 500ml was usual for the Netherlands. It is usual in, say, Germany, where they also sell the 1 litre Maß
That's seems to be the norm in a lot of mainland Europe.
Personally I'd have us use what the Royal Navy used to serve its rum ration in, the half-gill. This is 1/8 of a British pint or 71 millilitres, and the rum would have been a minimum of 54%!
Fractional gills were the pre-metric shot measure in the UK, but they were still pretty stingy. 1/6 gill in England, 1/5 or 1/4 gill in Scotland, and 1/4 gill in Northern Ireland.
The UK pint is 568ml, apparently a US pint is 473 ml.
It is one of my pet peeves for sure.
[1]: https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
I kind of understand the logic by not serving 20oz and saying "pint". Customers might avoid a place because their "pints are more expensive", when in reality that place is also serving them 4oz of extra beer. A bit like the classic 1/3 lb cheeseburger being "smaller"[1].
Annoyingly, I do find that servers will often refer to their larger size beer as "pint" regardless of whatever the menu says.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-pound_burger#Marketing_f...
McDonalds cups have a line for ice.
https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...
It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I haven't checked beyond Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line
There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line.
As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount. Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-...
In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor. German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...
Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.
I volunteer for the pub equivalent of this.
https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either size but not in the same pub.
( edit: Better link: https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp... )
However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish or Irish establishment which would have been used to these larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk people.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few years.
That's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.
A real ale that CAMRA would be happy with rarely has any head at all whereas a generic lager may need a patient pour to keep it to just 5% head.
Anyone asking for a Guinness with no head doesn't understand the drink they've ordered.
The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices, because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason" it's the lesser of two evils.
This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and menus.
Also a great way to teach folks on how to hold others honest and accountable, a skill sorely underdeveloped at present. Start with the pours, and push upward from there.
I also made a free app that maps measurements of pints (or any pour) that users make, meaning you can share where short pints are poured and more importantly where honest pints are being poured. It should work in the UK, but I set this up in the US. I intend for it to work internationally. Eventually the app will have a large enough database of poured pints that have been measured by scale that a simple photo will give a very accurate measurement if the glass is recognized.
I hope it helps humanity.
This would have been in the late 80s - i've no idea if it was still in use, but i've a feeling that the law hadn't necessarily moved on, so I guess the official measure could have been required if challenged in court.
> 1 in 2 pints delivered less than 14.4 oz (below 90%)
> 37.9% were significantly short (under 90% of claimed volume)
Aren't those the same claim with different percentages? 1 in 2 is 50%, and 50% is less than 37.9%
Germans have it nailed down with the Kölsch Stange, a 200ml glass that so readily disappears that it stays cold and you just get another from the Kranz.
cheers
Mostly in the NL I drink bottled beer. And I'm a Yorkshire man, at least by birth.
Also, the Dutch idea of Chinese food is very strange (basically some sort of Indonesian thing - and I like Indonesian, but not that).
Anyway you in no way requested a critique of Dutch cuisine, but I'm glad I got it off my chest. So, apologies.
That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is without units.
Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer than they expect.
[1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.
Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass, so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway, change bar.
You're there to chill. Just chill.
As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you insist on consistency then buy macro.
If we mandate beer volume then places that are “shorting” you will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere.
Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a pint for me, and it’s up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I wanted to drink something with no foam I’d drink a soda. And in my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that’s where these arguments lead.
People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge, especially as you will be comparing across visits to different places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.
If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to save money, ask for a smaller glass.
Anyone who has spent even a short amount of time in the food service business will be familiar with shrink. The average bar is probably seeing more than 15% shrinkage. The short pours are probably not offsetting that loss. Margins are thin.
Solutions for the neurotic drinker this website appeals to: - order a can or bottle - buy retail and stay home - go to a self pour joint and pay by volume. Bonus: you don't have to talk to anyone.
Otherwise put away the scale and talk to the bartender. Chances are you come away with plenty of free beer. Most small taprooms will help you find a beer you like by giving you free beer. If you're obsessing over getting what you paid for in food service, you're missing out on the true value of that industry.
Let's not harass our bartenders, a hell of a tough job, with scales. I spent years behind the case of a cut to order cheese shop. There's a time and place for scales. This is not it.
If you go to a beer bar or a tap room, a large part of the role of a bartender is helping you find beer that you like. Successful bars and bartenders thrive from repeat customers. Community is important. This is very obvious if you actually sit down at bars and talk to the people behind them.
Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better uses of your time, like enjoying yourself.
If you're not familiar with the mess that was nips: https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-...