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Comment by rglover | Hacker News Reader

Has anyone made the jump from a Mac to Framework as a daily driver? This is the first model to get my attention as a possible candidate for a full switch to Linux.

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I did last year after deciding that Apple's software just isn't for me anymore. I've always had a Linux desktop around (and used to daily drive Linux on a laptop years ago) so I was happy to consolidate on my preferred platform.

Biggest gripes I had are:

A) battery life (both during use and standby just kinda sucking on Linux in general compared to os x, not exactly framework specific but I did get used to how amazing my m1 pro for longevity)

B) the case looking nice but feeling a little flimsy

C) the speakers are pretty bad (though I did get turned on to easyeffects and there is a profile for the 13 which helped a bit)

D) macs completely spoiled me trackpad wise

It seems like they are taking a stab at all of these in some way and I'm excited to see how it goes, especially with so much being backwards compatible.

All the same gripes from me. None enough to be a deal breaker, but every once in a while I'll do something on my GFs macbook pro and be blown away by how solid it feels.

I was pleased to see that The Verge's coverage of the event [1] was very positive on the feel of the laptop (even saying they got the hinge feel right like on the macbook which was the first thing I noticed being "not quite right" with the framework when I got it). I'm optimistic that this will be a big step in the right direction.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/gadgets/915508/framework-announces-...

I use a MacBook Pro at work and a Framework 13 for personal use. The biggest downside to my Framework 13 is the low battery life; I’ve been getting only about 5 hours on Windows 11. Other than that, I like my Framework 13.

I am very excited about the Framework 13 Pro and it’s dramatically improved battery life. It’s unfortunate regarding RAM prices, though; I only paid $96 for 32GB of DDR5 RAM back in December 2023 when I ordered my Framework 13 (I bought my RAM on Newegg). It’s much more expensive today. I’d like to upgrade, but I can’t afford it at today’s RAM prices. With that said, because the RAM is still modular in the Framework 13 Pro, I could settle for a lower configuration and wait until a later date to upgrade the RAM.

You could do what I'm considering doing, which is sell my old Framework at market price. The 64GB of RAM that I bought for $200 at the same time you did is now worth almost $800 on Amazon new.

If you live near a Microcenter, you can get 64GB for "only" $560 vs the $850 price on Framework's website.

Is it a LPCAMM2 module though?

Yes, a Crucial module. Though upon further inspection they might not be in stock. You have to check per store.

Yeah, last June. I switched from an M1 Air to a 13”, 7640U.

I’m running Fedora. Other than some h265 and heic codec/file format issues, (I’ve had to convert videos and photos to more open codec/format), it’s been a great machine.

I miss the battery life of the M1 but I enjoy the comfort of knowing I can upgrade storage or fix anything I want when needed.

Other than personal web browsing, I do web development and tinkering with music creation (Bitwig).

I don’t think I’ll ever buy another Apple machine. I want to use devices that are repairable, support those companies, and use software that is open source or multi-platform without continuing subscriptions.

Now that I’m personally invested in Linux, I’d like to contribute to desktop app projects that are open source since now, I am also a user.

I have gradually been moving my digital life away from Google and Apple/iCloud.

I was a Mac guy for 12+ years and switched to Linux on desktop + Framework about 2 years ago.

It takes time. On many dimensions, the Framework running Linux is laughably worse. I never thought about battery life while the lid is closed until my Framework.

That being said, running Linux is very fun and can be productive if you choose a well-supported distribution and desktop environment. I landed on KDE Plasma and Fedora/Kununtu. It has been my daily driver and I see no reason to go back.

My gateway to Linux was buying an old Thinkpad T580 and messing around Arch Linux. If you’re on the fence, this may be a good place to start.

> I never thought about battery life while the lid is closed until my Framework.

In the days of S3, I never thought about it either. Ironically it's on my Mac that I have to remember to hibernate if I won't use my laptop for a week or whatever, because it'll die if I don't. It just happens to be that it was on a Mac on which I first tried "modern standby" features.

Anyway I feel you. This big battery life improvement is what has convinced me my next laptop can be a Framework.

I’ve been on Fedora Gnome but wonder if I’d like Plasma. I know that I can try it on a USB stick and I’ve also read that other people have made sure to install their operating system and their files on different partitions to make distro switching easier.

I never used a Mac for my personal machine, but I've always used them as my work machines. I purchased the first generation of the Framework 13 AMD laptops And it's been my personal machine ever since. It's a damn fine machine and I love having full control over the components in my machine without some OEM nonsense for repairs that manufacturers like Dell try to pull (wouldn't accept non-OEM batteries for me in the past).

The battery life is the biggest negative compared to a MacBook, but that seems to be better now (though I doubt it, or anyone, can compete with the power/performance that Apple is putting out now).

The issue with my advice to you though is that I prefer Linux. And I would be running Linux at work if I could. Mac OS is fine, but I do prefer Linux as my main operating system.

If I didn't specifically want to run Linux, though, I would probably be using a MacBook, despite their lack of repairability.

All that said, I really love my framework and I don't intend on buying another machine any time soon, especially because I can upgrade my Framework 5 years from now (hopefully).

I switched my main home computer to the Framework 13 (albeit on Windows) in 2021, after multiple weeks with my MBP sent away for AppleCare. I had some minor electrical issues with the original 11th gen Intel motherboard, but the 13th gen Intel board I've since upgraded to has been perfect.

It's by far the best primary computer I've owned. The tradeoffs in battery life, speaker sound quality, and so on didn't matter much for my use case, so I was happy to take them; but this new model seems to fix those issues too, so I think it'll appeal to a much wider audience.

I have a MacBook Air M2. I bought a framework 13 last year right before the RAM shortage. I really wanted to love it but ended up returning it due to really bad battery life performance (NixOS). Still on the MacBook today, but heavily considering the new framework

I'm on the same Mac as you. Have you tried Asahi Linux? I am running Asahi Remix with Gnome and couldn't be happier.

I did. Linux obliterates Mac in agentic workflows.

In which way? Also, out of curiosity, are you running local LLMs? How's the general experience?

1) Reliable sandbox 2) Nixos makes it easy for agents to research, debug and patch every aspect of the system, even applying kernel patches for the sake of debugging 3) CLI-oriented toolchains. Claude spent around 17 hours trying to set up xcode publishing and in the end just told me to press the button once Organizer pops up. 4) Containers

Containers are great. But on MBP I have rancher, and a beautiful mirror-like screen, and that enormous trackpad which can fit my momma's fat ass.

No technical argument will fit with the mindset of an average dev preferring MacBook.

Tough sell, I can buy a Magic Trackpad and use it on any machine I want.

The /s should have been obvious.

I wouldn't try selling MacBooks to anyone. It's the worst popular device in terms of ergonomics, paired with OS that is incredibly hostile to developers and power users

Don't worry, they don't need help selling it

Thanks!

1. I won't be using NixOS so that point is moot to me.

2. Reliable sandbox I can get using Apple Containers. I won't argue that the Linux experience is better, because it is. Alone it wouldn't be a reason for me to switch but it does count towards it.

3. Fair enough, I haven't had that issue on the Mac but that may just be because I'm working with other kinds of tech or I have the things I need installed in a different way.

4. Same as 2, really - unless I misunderstood you.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I have been primarily a Mac user for longer than I care to admit and lately macOS and the ecossystem have been growing more hostile to me. I've been on the lookout for a Linux laptop that wouldn't feel like much of a downgrade and the Framework 13 might be it so I'm trying to get as much information as I can before I commit (especially money) to the switch.

> apple containers

Virtual machines. I can't ask claude to figure out an issue on the hw host w/o falling back to per-action confirmations or giving it full unconditional access. When everything runs on one host I can organize controllable sandbox escapes for Claude and let it work in huge batches with minimal attention.

> won't be using

Well, that's your choice to avoid efficient agentic workflows

> misunderstood

There are no containers on mac, there are VMs hosting containers and subtractive sandbox filtering syscalls.

> get as much

FW 13 is great, FW 16 is a disaster.

> I can't ask claude to figure out an issue on the hw host w/o falling back to per-action confirmations or giving it full unconditional access.

Yeah that seems to confirm my suspicion that we have very different use cases. :)

> I can't ask claude to figure out an issue on the hw host w/o falling back to per-action confirmations or giving it full unconditional access.

Doesn't help me if the agent is efficient but I'm not. :D

> There are no containers on mac, there are VMs hosting containers and subtractive sandbox filtering syscalls.

I understand the tech. It serves the purpose I need from it.

> FW 13 is great, FW 16 is a disaster.

Thanks! I did take a quick peek at the 16 but I find it too big anyway.

Why do you need agents patching your kernel to enable efficient agentic workflows? Are those agents working on building a kernel? If they're just building some web backend or whatever, I don't see why any of this is needed.

I don't get #3 because all those CLIs work on Mac too. You're only forced to use Xcode if you're doing certain Apple platform dev, which does suck, but is there a better Linux-only alternative for that?

I did. I keep my charging cable close, or basically always attached. Battery life is abysmal. No idea why, had other Linux-based laptops before. Battery life was never good, but never this bad.

I was on a Macbook Pro (multiple models for many years) and jumped to the 12th gen intel framework. It is fantastic laptop, just showing its age a bit (mostly battery life as I still have the smaller battery and 12th gen intel wasn't that great for battery).

I upgraded the screen and speakers, nothing else really needed changing throughout the years.

I was so tired of the bad docker performance on macOS that I went to a framework with Linux. Linux on a laptop (Fedora/Gnome specifically) worked so much better than I expected too.

I'm hopeful I can pre-order this new model as well.

Did you try OrbStack on macOS before switching? Wondering if it would still bother you

The new container tool is also very nice on MacOS

Tried once, not very fond of my FW 13" Intel 13th Gen 2. Mac superior in both hardware & software.

DHH spoke about precisely that move at length in his Lex Fridman interview. Which incidentally is the only full episode i have ever watched.

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