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Comment by the_gipsy | Hacker News Reader

> Their cost of war probably outweighs by far any direct/indirect profit they can expect to get out of them. In addition, there are plenty of prosperous countries that are not involved in any wars.

You are telling me that, for example, Iraq was invaded, for what exact reason, if not for their massive petroleum resources? Menace of WMD? C'mon. The "plenty of countries" you mention is a small fraction of the world, and are extorting and exploiting the third world.

> Fixed pie fallacy. Rich people are not rich because they exploit poor people.

Yeah, great call. Except I never said people in the city are rich because of the contryside. I said they are sustained, they need food and other goods produced by agriculture and such, which is only produced in the countryside. If your born on the countryside, they don't even let you move to the city.

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> You are telling me that, for example, Iraq was invaded, for what exact reason, if not for their massive petroleum resources? Menace of WMD? C'mon.

There were certainly a few interested parties which have/will indeed greatly profit from the war. I'm not denying that. As a whole though, I'd be surprised if there is a net gain for the US considering the astronomical amount of money the they have spent on the war.

> The "plenty of countries" you mention is a small fraction of the world, and are extorting and exploiting the third world.

Which country is Sweden exploiting? Which country is Switzerland exploiting? The vast majority of third world countries are sovereign and free from foreign exploitation. In fact, many third world countries receive foreign aid from the US.

> I said they are sustained, they need food and other goods produced by agriculture and such, which is only produced in the countryside.

Agreed. What's your point?

> If your born on the countryside, they don't even let you move to the city.

That's not true at all. I'd say about 90% of Shenzhen people were born in the country-side. You very seldom meet someone who was actually born in Shenzhen given that the city is ~30 years old.

> I'd be surprised if there is a net gain for the US

You must be trolling

> Which country is Sweden exploiting? Which country is Switzerland exploiting?

Essentially trading manufactured goods for raw goods

> Agreed. What's your point?

You cryed "fixed pie fallacy", but it doesn't apply. "Such and such fallacy! Over!" cryes are extremely annoying.

> I'd say about 90% of Shenzhen was born in the country-side. You very seldom meet someone who was actually born in Shenzhen given that the city is ~30 years old.

If the government needs people in a new city, it will make sure that people will move to that city. But if a man born on the countryside wants to move to the city, he will not be allowed to do so, at least not near as easily as in any western country.

See. I am not arguing that China has a better way to run a country. I'm just saying that first world countries are no saints either.

ShenZhen is the WORST example you could make. It is a Special Economic Zone, created as an experiment to look at the effects of urbanising the country side...

Go next door to Guangzhou, in the evening and walk along the streets and count the "migrants" (what Chinese call people from the country side in the cities) sleeping on the sidewalk because they have no "right" to housing or "legitimate" work.

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