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Comment by ghshephard | Hacker News Reader

Is there anyone who has lived in one of these South American areas like Belize for a long time able to confirm any of this system of paying bribes to police officers at traffic stops?

Also, is his statement about police 'planting drugs' just so much self serving nonsense, or has anyone ever had a police officer actually do that?

The entire essay sounds somewhat specious to me...

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Sure, bribing cops at traffic stops is common. My dad lives in Colombia (he's Colombian) and I was visiting him there last year and go back often.

We were once stopped by a traffic cop for "passing in a no-passing zone" (passing is a necessity of traffic there, because many freeways are typically one lane in each direction, and sugar cane trucks are common and drive at 20mph). Basically just stopped to extract some cash.

The way it plays in that area of Colombia is, the driver asks if there's anything he can do for the officer, maybe he can pay for the ticket on the spot. The officer then asks you to pop your trunk so he can "check it out". Both of you get behind the car, you slip him 50,000 pesos (~$25, a very generous bribe), shake hands on go on your way.

My dad's excuse isn't that the cost of the actual ticket is too high--it probably isn't much more than the bribe--just that it's too inconvenient to pay it. Bureaucracy in Colombia is as byzantine as you might imagine, and you'll probably end up bribing the bureaucrats to process your papers faster anyway.

Now if I was a regular white traveler going through Colombia, I probably wouldn't even be stopped at all--the police know they can't hassle you in the long term like they can a local, they know even if you get a ticket you won't know how to pay it, and they have easier people to target.

I grew up in Venezuela. Most of what he says is true, except I'm not a drug-dealer, so I haven't been in many at-risk situations. I've either provided some "documentation" in cases in which my license or medical certification was expired, or I've taken the "confrontational" approach: provided valid real documentation and not letting myself be intimidated/harassed by them. I've done this in cities though, where the risk is much lower.

I hate being part of the corrupt system. I rather have them give me a ticket. Problem is, they don't want to give you a ticket. If they find something that they can hold you up for, they will try to get money out of you instead of arrest you. In the end, for practical reasons, it's better to just part with a few dollars.

In some cases, I've had to watch them as they "search" my car. You keep an eye on them as they do it so they don't plant drugs on you (they sometimes do).

Name-dropping is a common tactic too, but I've never used it myself. My friends have.

I've not been to south america, but I spent a fair amount of time in south east asia. Different part of the world but similar practices and yes the basic details of his story checkout. Police do setup roadblocks on random days on random roads in order to "check things". In Cambodia and Thailand a favourite was to check that you had the "correct helmet" a law recently being passed that meant you had to wear a helmet when riding a moto (most traffic especially in cambodia is by motorbike). That's the one I personally ran into.

About planting drugs, I can believe this as well. Remember we're talking relatively remote places where few foreigners are likely to go, this tactic is another part of the "negotiation".

So yes, this all sounds pretty plausible to me.

The police setup checkpoint happened to me once in Brazil. They let me pass that time because they had their hands already full of drivers to "deal" with.

It varies a lot, depending on where are you in Brazil (city/location), how busy are things, etc

I'd say most are 'legitimate' (usually Rio is the exception) and if there's nothing wrong you'll just go through without a problem.

South American here (Peru) .. It all depends where you go.. Main cities & touristic places will probably be no problem. Go deep on to the jungle or to more dangerous areas (where you should not go anyways ) and anything can happen.

I would not suggest doing much of what is told on the article unless you really know what you are doing. (with plenty of practice)

The above said, make no mistake, police corruption is rampant, if you have not done anything wrong staying firm and having your papers in order is advised, if you do get in trouble , a $10 offering to have a "Cervezita" on your name" will help things for you.

Regarding planting drugs, I remember a big case of that in the 90's (but in Dallas Texas :)

Enjoy your visit.

Ps. Attempting to smuggle drugs out of the country is a sure way to spend an extended vacation in a very nasty place.

I lived in Romania for 20 years, a country more civilized (I use that term very loosely) than Belize, and even here, what he is describing is very common. In fact, the article doesn't describe the full picture. The bribery is not only with the police, is with everybody in a public function. This includes any bureaucrat (believe me, we had many) and doctors. No bribery, poor or nonexistent treatment.

There are some people in this thread who suggest that the problem is that people accept the status quo. That if nobody would pay anymore, the system would fix itself. There's a huge cultural gap that makes this hard to understand, but people in these countries don't want to end the exploitation, they want to become the exploiters themselves! The mechanism that allow the system to continue are reinforced by the new players. There's a feedback loop in place that makes sure the system accepts only a certain kind of new players.

It is like the apochryphal caged monkeys experiment. People learn that corruption is then only way to get ahead, and who wants to be a martyr? One person can't change the system, some sort of massive coordinated action would be needed-- but how? Hence, rebel groups and freedom fighters and whatnot, but those have their own problems.

I don't know about South America but I grew up in Africa and South Asia. The general principles for interacting with people in power outlined here (name dropping , money exchanges) are plausible and would work (Obviously, with significant cultural differences).

( My personal experience has been more mundane and mostly in the realm of evading Cops who flag you for traffic offenses. )

To be accurate Belize is in Central America/North America not South America. And I'm not sure you can group different countries together and assume their situations are similar.

The comments in his blog post seem to confirm the posts accuracy.

I lived in the Caribbean for a while and this kind of bribery didn't happen in some countries, did happen in others, and "expedite fees" were universal, as well as generally being charged more as a foreign person. How they defined foreign was amusing, as a native of a neighboring island was considered a foreigner, and another native from the same neighboring island was a local, even though the latter had lived in Miami and NYC for most of his life.