Imagine the daycare worker taking care of your kids or the truck driver bringing your food saying "getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment".
Imagine the daycare worker taking care of your kids or the truck driver bringing your food saying "getting frustrated creates stress, that's unhealthy and makes for a hostile work environment".
what's your point? if you get frustrated with my kids then you are in the wrong profession or you need more training. as a parent i am not allowed to get frustrated with my kids either. if you get frustrated with my delivery, then i am sorry, and if i was the cause, i apologize. tell me what went wrong and i'll do better next time. if it was something else, you have my sympathies. i'll do my best to not make it any worse.
working in a stress free environment is not a privilege, it's a human right. nobody deserves to be mistreated at work, or be stressed by other peoples expectations (which is a form of mistreatment, or, dare i say, abuse).
> working in a stress free environment is not a privilege, it's a human right. nobody deserves to be mistreated at work, or be stressed by other peoples expectations (which is a form of mistreatment, or, dare i say, abuse)
Seriously? Having expectations is abuse? Since students get stressed by exams and deadlines, education is nothing but abuse then?
And having a stress free environment is a human right? It'd be nice if the world worked that way, but it's as absurd as saying "never stubbing your toe is a human right".
i don't know about driving because i don't drive, but i disagree that taking care of children is stressful. i am a stay at home dad. i have taken care of my kids from birth, and we frequently have kids of relatives and friends in our house.
i never once felt stressed by kids. stress is something that for me is only caused by expectations of others. kids behavior is natural, there is no reason to get stressed.
now of course everyone is different, and perhaps i am simply more resilient and i don't get easily stressed, but that's also why i can demand a stress free environment, because actually what is stress free for me, may be very stressful for you, meaning that my expectations of a stress free environment may be a lot lower than they would be for you.
Having expectations is abuse?
causing stress is abuse.
students get stressed by exams and deadlines
i don't. not by the exam or the deadlines themselves. i only get stressed by people's reactions on how i perform. and that is an important distinction. because regardless of how i perform you can decide to accept my performance or be disappointed. only that disappointment and how you express it causes stress for me. but your reaction is under your control, so it is possible for you to react in a way that it does not cause me any stress. you could for example be encouraging to do better next time instead of being disappointed. and that is all i am asking for.
another way to look at it, stress is caused by things that are not under my control. and that is mostly other peoples behavior. or, to get back to the original topic, by the unpredictable behavior of LLMs.
No, obviously if everybody had those same unreasonable standards the world wouldn't work at all. So all of the privileged elites should probably be grateful that us plebs with "lower standards" exist.
what is a reasonable standard and what is dignified and what isn't is really the question. taking a private jet is clearly an unreasonable standard. living healthy (stress is a health hazard) should not be unreasonable.
Being lucky enough to work in a comfortable air-conditioned office, AND having the luxury of declining jobs sorely because the operating system makes you angry, is the height of privilege.
Stop feeling sorry for yourselves and realize how good you have it.
> I didn't see them say anything about dignity.
The word dignity was used twice in the comment I replied to...
Perhaps "victim" in the sense of not having much choice/agency? Neither in the choice of operating system (due to sparsely restrained anticompetitive behaviour of incumbents over decades) nor in how they're treated (entrapped) by the operating systems. The OSes are really POS (point of sale) terminals for media and cloud services.
Thus consider most operating system users aren't really users. They're "usees", they're being used. One could surmise that the Microsoft/Apple/Google shareholders are the real users of the operating systems.
If you'd left the commercial OS world in the Win2K/OSX 10.4 era for, say, Gentoo Linux, and would come back now to look over someone's shoulder while they're using (or rather, being used by) their operating systems, you could be forgiven for coming away with the impression that some kind of authority inversion has taken place in the meantime.
not true. anybody working as a volunteer works by choice. i work by choice, because i could instead live in germany on unemployment support and welfare, because i am to old to find a job (germany has a big problem with age discrimination) and the government can't force me to work as a selfemployed freelancer. so i choose to work because i want to. not because i have to.
at least in germany i can't think of anyone being forced to work in a job that would cause them suffering. well, except working with windows, and hence from that perspective a worse kind of suffering is quite unlikely.
that aside, almost all suffering comes from how people are treated at work. the days of people suffering in coalmines or other seriously unhealthy work conditions with out any alternative are over. anyone there still suffering at work today is being actively exploited by abusive business owners. yes, the people working there may not have a choice, but we as a society do have the choice to not tolerate such working conditions, and therefore making such demands is not privileged.
> at least in germany i can't think of anyone being forced to work in a job that would cause them suffering. well, except working with windows
You must be actually trolling. You'd honestly choose stocking shelves in a supermarket over being a windows sysadmin? Have you ever heard of RSI? Or actually ever worked a day of physical labor in your life?
physical labor? not to the point of suffering. the point is, in germany, jobs that make you suffer through physical labor do not exist, because they are illegal. grey areas exist of course, and cases that are not discovered because the victims (and in that case they are victims) don't speak up.
but this is completely besides the point because what i am talking about is what is more difficult to cover by law, and that is mental suffering.
your argument essentially appears to be that because physical suffering exists, we should ignore mental suffering, and anyone complaining about mental suffering should stop whining because others have it worse. 1st world problems or whatever.
so i should also tolerate my boss yelling at me, my coworkers bullying me, being verbally abused, how about discrimination, sexism, etc? surely any of that is more tolerable than the physical pain i'd get from stocking shelves.
just because something worse is possible that does not dismiss the stress and frustration i have to experience when working with windows, or with LLMs.
actually, i did, and i stand by it. working with a system that makes you angry is undignified.
it's a reference to a quote that i can't find the source for which roughly goes like this: *why i use linux and not windows? i could also rob banks and ..., but you have to keep a certain amount of dignity". the original of that quote was in german.
but i don't see any undignified jobs as alternative here either. what should that be?
taxi/bus driver? food delivery? sweeping streets? work as a plumber (apparently they are in demand in western countries)? i can't see anything undignified about that. even cleaning toilets isn't undignified. it has to be done.
maybe it can be argued that working as a prostitute is undignified. at least if it is not done voluntary. and of course bad working conditions are undignified.
but again, all of these jobs can be structured such that they don't cause stress and that they can be done with dignity.
so what really is an undignified job?
there is only one more category of undignified work that just came to mind: jobs where i am contributing to the exploitation of others. i once worked in a software company that had a customer that was running a sportsbetting website. in itself the work was not undignified, we used linux, and all the good software practices, but contributing to a gambling website just felt wrong.
people also consider the exploitation of users done by meta/facebook, google etc, as undignified. but those jobs have the same problem with dignity that using windows has, so i don't think they are what you have in mind.