Comment by vw_bulli | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vw_bulli | Hacker News Reader

This resonates with me a lot, and reading it gave me some positive emotions about Germany which I unfortunately have less and less with each passing day.

This country gave me a lot. Moving here from a third world country, the jump in my quality of life was immeasurable. All the rules everywhere were for me a blessing, coming originally from a chaotic city.

Despite never taking any German courses, I had reached C1 level after only three years, and thanks to the (now reverted) law by the traffic-light-government you mentioned, I could get the citizenship in a record 3 years only.

I have never felt at home anywhere in my life like in Hamburg. It is such a stunning city, with the perfect mix of anything. The city's own marketing campaign "why go to country X when you have it inside Hamburg" is so true.

Compared to the rest of Germany, Hamburgers are extremely open and friendly. But the bar is so.damn.low. That is one of the few big problems I have here. I integrated in an excellent way IMO: speak C1 German without an accent, have a German wife, have a stable job, yet feel unwelcome by an ever increasing percentage of Germans.

As much as I adore Hamburg, I do not want to imagine getting old here. Just like a huge amount of Germans, I see my happiness in moving further north.

You'll find that Scandinavian countries are not readily welcoming foreigners into their social circles either.

I don't expect to be welcomed, but also not actively "unwelcomed" by many. I never said it's about racism; My extremely pale Italian friend was complaining about exactly this to me as well. The "Verbitterung" here (The fact that people apriori want to fight you, before even any interaction) is sad. Scandinavian countries are even more closed off, that's true, but they are not known to be hostile.

being German that's a sad thing to hear. I really do hope you stay because I think people genuinely do need to stand up to it, don't write us off too quickly.

Verbitterung/Verrohung of public life seems to be omnipresent now, with the capital 'o' Other being attacked for everything. We ought to know better though. I've noticed it myself with my partner who is Japanese when visiting the country. Hostility I've not encountered before. Frankly much of the world seems to be losing its mind.

Agreed, and it unfortunately takes a very real toll on you long-term..

However, I want to also highlight that some of the sweetest, most supportive people I have ever met are German, including random people you meet outside. The person I look up to most also happens to be German.

I would absolutely not be where I am today if not for the support of dozens of Germans along the way. So I am very grateful for my countrymen and women, its not all grey :)

> Verbitterung/Verrohung of public life seems to be omnipresent now

It's not exclusive to Germany. I have been experiencing this further south in the continent and is visibly growing in the UK as well.

This seems like the right place to put https://youtu.be/KfWyo2mqXnw?si=EeYGdpA2BJ_xOzLi

> As much as I adore Hamburg, I can't imagine growing old here.

Why not?

> Like many Germans, I see my future somewhere further north.

Is it similar to people moving from Berlin to Brandenburg...

What's driving that trend? And how do people who already live in those regions generally feel about the migration from big cities into more "rural" areas?

From their perspective, it probably isn't entirely positive. It can put pressure on housing prices, schools, traffic, and healthcare. There may also be political and cultural tensions as the population changes.

> Why not?

By no means did I mean Hamburg. If Hamburg was a country of its own I would love to live here to my last day, enduring the social-skills situation. The reason why I do would not like to settle here permanently is more about German politics, which makes one vomit. Additionally, the recent reforms to the pension system here pissed many young people off, and the trajectory says it will only get worse.

> Like many Germans, I see my future somewhere further north.

Berliners move to Brandenburg when they make a family and want a bigger house :) My (and many Germans') intention is more for the whole package. In my case I meant moving to a completely different country, not just region. In the case of Norway: (Relatively) much less disgusting politics, solid pension and stable economy, less hostile environment, and of course breath-taking nature. Lots of this is subjective, so take it with a grain of salt :)

Domestic migration within Germany doesn't really bother anyone AFAIK, since Germany's birthrate is very low anyway so no significant pressure arises. And if you move from Hamburg to Schleswig-Holstein nobody would notice. If you move from Hamburg to Bavaria (why would you?), that's a different story.

> By no means did I mean Hamburg

Ok, from your sentence, was clear to me, you like Hamburg, but you don't want grow old there.

> Additionally, the recent reforms to the pension system here pissed many young people off, and the trajectory says it will only get worse.

So to leave the system now moving to Norway, will make you get a better Pension? I think it depends of many factors, but I am not sure it is true, specially if you are 30+.

> Domestic migration within Germany doesn't really bother anyone AFAIK

That's not true as well. There is a lot of tension in the Brandenburg region, or even small cities like Leipzig.

> If you move from Hamburg to Bavaria (why would you?), that's a different story.

Hm I see a lot of reasons why moving from Hamburg to Bavaria is a good idea.. I guess it's relative.

Thanks for the note regarding domestic migration, learned something new today.

The very last point was meant sarcastically due to the Hamburg-Bavaria beef. Of course Bavaria has some things that are nicer. For example I really miss the mountains, living up here in the north where it can’t get any flatter.

Cheers!

The Documentary about Brandenburg and Berlin from RBB [1] is interesting to try to understand (or not!) the problem :)

References: [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxjmvplzeJw

Have fun!

    > Additionally, the recent reforms to the pension system here pissed many young people off

The tax rates are already so high in Germany, it is probably impossible to raise taxes enough to sustain the system. What realistic alternative was there to fixing the (fiscally) unsustainable pension system? And if you think Germany has it bad, then look at France. That place is a ticking (fiscal) time bomb with their massive pension system.

> What realistic alternative was there to fixing the (fiscally) unsustainable pension system

I think there are multiple alternatives. To make people work up to 70, when Men have a life expectancy in average of 78 and Women, in average 86, is probably not the most attractive one.

    > I think there are multiple alternatives.

Such as...?

Do you think it makes sense to contribute 9.3% of your salary every month (well, your employer contributes roughly the same, so about 18% in total) for around 40 years (assuming you start working at 30, which is already late), only to enjoy it for an average of 8 years if you're a man?

For instance, if you earns, 3k/month, your whole life, and a 2% year annual return in a saving account, over 40 years, that's roughly 300k in contributions. Spread over 8 years, that's about 4.5k/month. And no, your pension will never will be even 2k/month with a salary of 3k/month.. At this point, will just make sense to become civil servant.. full pension, private insurance, depending of the job, 40 days+ holidays/year..

There’s something I find very distasteful about the idea of abandoning a country that provided you opportunity exclusively in the name of your own happiness. I think it’s the kind of attitude from immigrants that is greatly increasing anti immigrant sentiment. Become part of an old world people takes generations. Even in America, the branches of my family came here four generations ago and I view myself as American and would be accepted as such, but I still hold a high amount of gratitude for the original founders of the country.

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