Comment by ninkendo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ninkendo | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I'm not really criticizing oxide as a product here, I'm sure it's great. I'm criticizing the website for being heavy on "solutions" and light on details. But really, the main detail it's lacking is the operating system it uses, so as I said, I needed to refocus the criticism.

But to your point, I don't think I ever said machines don't need a management control plane (I develop a bare metal management control plane for $DAYJOB, I'm fully aware of what it entails!) I'm saying that you don't need to insert a VM layer between the bare metal and containers: Having k8s run on the bare metal OS would be ideal IMO.

But since Oxide seems to be Illumos-based, that's basically not possible... At least not for containers as most people know them (ie. with linux-based docker images.) Heck, even if running a VM layer between the OS and the containers, it looks like running your own hypervisor prevents you from (currently) having nested virtualization, which makes certain k8s workloads a lot harder.

"Light on details" is not often a criticism that we get, but I think you might be looking in the wrong place: for the kind of detail that you're looking for, you should be heading into our RFDs -- specifically (for the issue you seem to be most interested in), RFD 26.[0][1]

[0] https://rfd.shared.oxide.computer/rfd/0026

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41515447

Its funny because Bryan has spend a good part of the last decades walking around and telling people that they should have VM layer. And this criticism can credibly made against his company.

Interestingly he has mentioned that in the podcast and basically said, the industry has standardized on VM and in the kind of environments they run, there just isn't a good way around it.

But yeah, a world where Illumos based bare-metal containers had become the standard would be a nicer. But its not where the market is.

I said some of this elsewhere, but the operating system is an implementation detail since we're not selling you bare-metal compute--we're selling you on-premises cloud computing. I think you were looking at this from hardware plus operating system rather than hardware plus a cloud computing control plane.

I get what you're saying though, and you're right that certain workloads like Kubernetes on the metal that can take advantage of hardware wouldn't be a good fit for Oxide today. We could decide to change that in the future, but I don't see that as a priority for Oxide given all else we have to build first.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com