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Comment by wpietri | Hacker News Reader

You don't have to come across as the baddie. There are plenty of neutral ways to start the conversation. E.g., "I notice that there's a lot more generated comments lately. How much are people finding those useful?"

If you really want to save your career, learning how to have real conversations is a vital skill.

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Have you worked in corporate recently or at a particularly toxic one?

Asking because when I was at capital one, certain comments or questions about topics like this, would actually get you noticed negatively by your manager and being disruptive to what leadership wants hurts your career.

In fact being the one to ask and point out questions like yours ultimately got me PIP'ed and removed from the company. So, like, yeah, being vulnerable and the first one to tell the truth is risky. That's why the bystander effect can happen and in politics or risky situations silence is a common response, and why we don't have more courageous people doing the right thing - because the risk is higher on the person speaking up and the rewards aren't disproportionately in their favor (but are evenly distributed though, so its not favorable for you as I learned from a game theory perspective to voice up / defend certain stances).

Capital One is a particularly toxic work environment, and I'm not sure that your experiences there apply to other companies.

I started my first post-Capital One job a few months ago, and I'm still not used to the fact that this company expects everybody working here to still be working here in two years. Most employers are not going through everybody with a fine tooth comb every 6 months hunting for any hint of an excuse to PIP them.

Oh wow, that sounds horrible. Do you have a sense of what motivates that behavior?

The founder CEO (with a cult of personality) really believes that it is the way to "top tech talent." He comes from a management consulting background and tries to manage the software organization like they're consultants. Leads to a very bottom heavy organization, with a lot of juniors, many of whom get PIPed right as they're starting to become useful. It leads to high turnover with a lot of backstabbing, and very short term thinking because everybody is always focused on the next performance management cycle.

It was really a bizarre place to work, because work-life balance was amazing, the benefits and vacation were great, but twice a year there was this insane hunger games.

They really chilled out the performance management process from 2020 or so through 2023, so people who worked there then didn't always notice.

Ah yeah that explains my experience a bit better. I was there in the COVID wfh time, 2020 or so, then rejoined 2024 when I experienced things not too unlike what you described. (except I joined as a principal, ~8-10 years of experience, and received backstabbing and lies from juniors and managers (edit and tech lead)).

I don't recommend going to Plano, TX and joining the Auto Navigator product division.

I grant that sane behaviors may not always be successful at toxic companies. That seems true by definition. But I don't think general career advice should be based on what is (temporarily) safe at the bottom decile.

Also, if you go back you'll note that I didn't suggest that people "tell the truth". I suggested people ask a neutral question about an obvious phenomenon. If it's unsafe to give an honest answer, most people won't, so it'll be a short discussion. But if it's a topic with some room, it can be the start of a good conversation and possibly a useful change.

Ah, I see. I didn't specifically think Capital one was toxic, though, more recently after sharing about my experience more I've been realizing it may have been.

I can see how that technique works great at a non-toxic company. Thank you.

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