Comment by spwa4 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by spwa4 | Hacker News Reader

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> But who is there to say that liberal democracies are the desired end of goal for all states ...

Everyone. That's the essence of democracy. It quite literally is what everyone wants.

> How many wars in recent history waged in the name of liberal democracies and freedom?

Zero? I guess you mean things like the Iran war, if we disregard entirely that Iran has been attacking almost literally everyone, including the US, but also including, uh, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Turkey, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, ... they attacked fucking Argentina (look at the map, then tell me how ridiculous that is, then check wikipedia to see they did indeed attack Argentina)

Sorry I mean "exporting the revolution", with little or not explanation as to why this particular export required killing 600000 Syrian civilians, and certainly 2 million people total.

What I just can't understand is why tankies support Iran. I mean, how can you get less communist than Iran? I mean is it the words they use and the propaganda? Idiots.

Given a choice I would rather live in democratic systems - but to say that everyone wants democratic systems tell you are not as exposed as you think you are. There are many failed democracies which resulted in highly bloated and corrupt governments, and these tend to make the situation worse. And there are many states running alternative governance system with success.

When you are saying everyone, you are basically projecting your liberal values on others and you are convinced they are superior and that is why it is dangerous.

Regarding wars - Iran, Iraq, Libya, and many other examples (coups) were initiated in the name of liberty and freedom. And notice that all those countries are rich in oil.

Regarding Iran specifically, you won't understand until you study the Shai's faith and history which I'm sure you don't have any knowledge or understanding of.

> Given a choice I would rather live in democratic systems - but to say that everyone wants democratic systems tell you are not as exposed as you think you are ...

Nope, just old. Like 40s old. I'm afraid I'm someone who thinks that either people want democracy, or just haven't been anywhere near an actual undemocratic system, haven't seen what happens.

In reality, either people are (a minimum level of) liberal (voluntarily or "because otherwise I'd get arrested"), or they live under constant violence. Those are the only choices, and the way that works for people like tankies or some religious lunatics is that they've never seen up close what violence does on even a medium scale. In other words, the way it works for them, maybe for you, is that it's a fantasy. Not fundamentally different from what I'd loved to have done with Sarah Michelle Gellar, when even back then she was probably way too old for me.

And yeah your conspiracy theories about oil. THE war about liberty and freedom was Afghanistan. You might notice: no oil.

So yeah I'm one of those really irritating old guys that tells you even you want freedom and democracy, even if you think differently. It's not the only thing you want, and of course you now think you want your little fantasy more, but that will disappear forever the first time a police officer shows you what happens when they decide to use violence against someone you know.

I'm about the same age and I grew up in those systems you mentioned and now living in liberal democracy.

Thinking about it, I think you are right. I think I got used to not worry about being under constant threat/violence.

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