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Comment by jrm4 | Hacker News Reader

As a black man, I can't help but think of the whole Chris Brown thing here. Yes, I personally found what he did disgusting, and if everyone else obviously felt that way, I would keep that up.

But no -- I know too many Black women who have -- I suppose -- chosen forgiveness. Too many intelligent humans that I know or know of, are good with this for me to say "No, ladies, you are wrong."

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That is a problem I've had with the whole "listen to women" thing. That became a popular phrase and I said okay that's reasonable I'll do so. Over time though I'll see women on both sides of just about every issue. Even women having the right to vote you'll somehow find women who disagree(probably for political reasons).

My only conclusion is the whole idea of "listen to women" is itself simplistic as it assumes women all think the same. Certainly I still listen to women, but im not willing to assume they all feel a certain way just because a few people insist they do. Otherwise Im just ignoring the women with the minority view

Those who tell you to "listen to women" usually also tell you which women you should listen to.

I don't know the particular "listen to women" trend you're referring to there but, as you say, there is no doubt that women hold diverse and independent views like men do.

So no statement by some or other advocate can legitimately claim to be the viewpoint of all women. Myself, I also wouldn't want that to be a bar that must be cleared to get onto the platform and take the mic.

We can listen even as women debate their own varied viewpoints with other women. And women themselves must call out and challenge the misrepresentations made in their name, it's a responsibility that comes with the mic.

What you said more or less, plus my 2c.

Have to ask, but what does race have to do with this? Are you saying that DV is deeply engrained in the culture? Black women just accept that their men choose violence?

I'm a bit older, white, and grew up in/around plenty of DV - I think it was just more common back then overall - and my understanding of the forgiveness is that it was almost always driven by economics. The man was the provider, the woman was economically trapped, so she forgave and withstood it. If the women had their own income, they'd have left. The other major factor I picked up on was the kids and withstanding it in order to keep the family unit together.

It was never a lack of intelligence or that they actually condoned it. They had to mentally justify it and rationalize it to others. They'd try to avoid it and 'not make him mad' but when it happened again, they rarely ever made the tough choice to leave.

This is old but I'm going to respond, here.

Absolutely not. If anything, I'm saying the opposite. Which is to say, every group has their problematic and/or unfortunate people and whatnot, but -- that's not who I'm around. Generally e.g. professionals who I know themselves would not personally tolerate such things.

So, yeah, what I'm saying is perhaps exactly the type of woman you would not expect to be forgiving, many of them are (and they happen to be black.)

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