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Comment by coryl | Hacker News Reader

The nibble technique reminds me of how clients drive freelance web developers insane.

Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation.

The only way to take the position of power is to not need (much) money, which leads to the ironic situation where, by not needing work, you end up getting paid more for it. Call it the Paradox of Need, you can see it in many different socio-economic situations.

The fact that living a low cash-burn lifestyle also improves you morally, is environmentally positive and gives you personal freedom are side benefits to this approach.

I disagree that clients have the position of power. The nibbles in freelancing usually come towards the end of delivery, rather than the start when the project scope and costs are negotiated. This means the freelancer has the power, because the client still has to pay for the services already performed.

A good freelancer will always have power in a negotiation. There are a lot of average freelancers.

But it's also true that the designer has what the client needs: web design ability. So why would we automatically assume a power imbalance?

the client has what the freelancer needs: money

And the freelancer has what the client needs: the ability to make a web site.

A transaction happens when both parties believe they're better off with the result: the freelancer wants the money more than the time, and the client wants the web site more than the money.

Well, the reality is that the client has what the freelancer needs: money, so they are always going to be in the position of power in the negotiation.

OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value. It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results.

I and many friends have found that best time to find a girlfriend is when you have girlfriend. Some goes for finding a job; it's better to currently have one while looking. Partly this signals capability (i.e. There must be a reason you do not have a job/girlfriend|boyfriend|whatever, even if I can't see it), partly it allows you to act with some (possibly attractive) aloofness.

So if you can act like you don't need the job/money/whatever then you can gain an upper hand.

I'm not a big fan of fronting in order to start a relationship, and if I got the feeling that a possible client was going to try to weasel me on cost because they think having money makes them the boss then I'd seriously consider walking away. Of course, if I was in fact in serious need of money then the game changes, but past experiences tells me that clients who are lording money over contractors are a big risk of refusing to pay.

>>OTOH, the client is talking to the developer because the developer has something the client needs: skills to provide something of value.

Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions.

> Yes, but freelance developers are a dime a dozen. Therefore clients will always have the upper hand in business transactions.

Once you finally accept that clients are also a dime a dozen too, it'll become a lot easier to only accept the good clients, and only accept good pay.

good freelance developers though, are rare as hen's teeth.

It helps to (politely) remind clients that they are free to spend more time looking for a less-expensive developer while in the meantime nothing gets done and the client possibly loses money, or loses an opportunity to make money, and may then still end up with a less-skilled developer who will not deliver adequate results.

For a time I shook my head at the irony that the smaller the client and the smaller the job, the higher the maintenance and the harder it was to get paid. The nickel-and-diming, the offers of creative means of payment ("I'll take you out to a nice dinner!", "My wife makes fantastic cookies!"), the weekend calls to the cell phone. Of course, I later came to understand that this wasn't ironic at all.

The best predictor of how "difficult" a client will be in this dimension is the degree to which the person you deal with is paying with what they perceive as "their own money", literally or figuratively. A client selection strategy based on this observation dovetails nicely with the "charge more, much more!" approaches frequently discussed on these pages.

Which in turn reminds me that project managers working with freelancers are often far, far better at negotiation than are the freelancers.

To your point, early in my career I made way more money working through a middleman than I did freelancing directly for clients. It was also much less stressful.

Interesting. When I was doing more client work I wanted to do something like that, but was never able to suss out exactly how to find such a middleman. I was a lot younger and (I'd like to think) less savvy then, though.

I do most of my work through agencies in Austin, TX...

It took about a year to build up a good hourly rate reliably... this was done mostly just by being fast, available, and good and always keeping an eye on the next project.

At this point, I know several people who are able to make money off me, and that has always been my goal as a freelancer, more than anything. The agencies I freelance with all recognize that I'm as reliable as an employee but far cheaper as far as total cost, so they have a better margin on work they do with me.

And even though I'm charging quite a bit, since they are charging a markup on my time... well, it's just a lot nicer for everyone. If I raise my rates, they make more money (within reason, of course).

This makes sense considering most PM's I know used to be in sales. Funny thing, after spending many years in sales before becoming a developer, I can see these techniques coming a mile away.

Sometimes I employ "power negotiating" skills and have some fun just to stay sharp.

Here are some of those techniques: http://www.negotiatingguide.com/negotiation/powerarticle.htm

True. If the freelancer treated the nibbles as a negotiation instead of requests it might go a lot differently.

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